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Thread: The Enigma that is Derek Carr

  1. #1

    The Enigma that is Derek Carr

    I bought a Derek Carr jersey years ago, during his first three years in the league, when it appeared he would be the next great, winning Raiders QB. Then something happened. He was injured and he has never been the same.

    In his first three years in the league, Carr was an elite QB in terms of turning passing yards into TD passes. He was aggressive. He seemed to be at his best in the red zone. He took off and ran the ball with abandon. He got us first downs with his legs. He played to win. Then he got hurt. He was never the same.

    As I pointed out at the end of last season, Carr has passed for a lot of yards since his first three years in the league, but he produces few TD passes in comparison. He plays his best between the 20s, not inside the red zone. Yesterday, our offense had five scoring drives, with only two of them producing TDs. Arizona had only three offensive scoring drives, with all three producing TDs.

    The same thing happened the first week of the season, against San Diego. The difference was that San Diego produced TDs while we produced field goals. Do the math. Three TDs and one field goal will beat a team with one TD and three field goals every time.

    Derek Carr lacks elite instincts. Derek Carr lacks the will to win. Derek Carr has the will to try to NOT lose a game.

    All we needed yesterday was one more drive in the second half to produce points. One drive. One drive to keep our defense off the field and to give them a rest. One drive to point at least three more points on the board. One more drive and the heroics of Kyler Murray wouldn't have mattered.

    We were ahead 20-0 when Carr took his foot off the gas. He's the field general. Instead of stomping his foot on the throat of the Cardinals, Carr made the safe throws, threw the ball away, missed open receivers, didn't look downfield for a big play. He played not to lose, but what happened? We lost, because he played it too safe.

    No this loss wasn't all on Carr. There was plenty of blame to go around. Fumbles in key situations will kill you every time. But we shouldn't even have made it to overtime. We had the game in the bag, until we didn't.

    How many times have we seen a Carr-led team have a comfortable lead then take a quarter or even an entire half off? How many times have we seen a hand bring down Carr? How many times have we seen our offense sputter after clicking like a strong eight cylinder engine for most of the game? How many times have we thought, "Why won't you just run for the first down, Derek?"

    This is the enigma that is Derek Carr. He can do it all, but he won't and doesn't.

    Yesterday we saw a QB with the will to win play a QB with the will not to lose. There's a difference.

    Stabler had it. Blanda had it. Gannon had it. Carr just doesn't have it.

    Yesterday was one of the most disappointing losses I've experienced as a fan since 1967. We had this game won, until we didn't. All we needed wasa one more drive by our offense in the third or fourth quarter. One more drive to take time off the clock, to score a TD, to give our defense a rest.

    And once more, Carr just didn't get it done.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by raiderman41 View Post
    I bought a Derek Carr jersey years ago, during his first three years in the league, when it appeared he would be the next great, winning Raiders QB. Then something happened. He was injured and he has never been the same.

    In his first three years in the league, Carr was an elite QB in terms of turning passing yards into TD passes. He was aggressive. He seemed to be at his best in the red zone. He took off and ran the ball with abandon. He got us first downs with his legs. He played to win. Then he got hurt. He was never the same.

    As I pointed out at the end of last season, Carr has passed for a lot of yards since his first three years in the league, but he produces few TD passes in comparison. He plays his best between the 20s, not inside the red zone. Yesterday, our offense had five scoring drives, with only two of them producing TDs. Arizona had only three offensive scoring drives, with all three producing TDs.

    The same thing happened the first week of the season, against San Diego. The difference was that San Diego produced TDs while we produced field goals. Do the math. Three TDs and one field goal will beat a team with one TD and three field goals every time.

    Derek Carr lacks elite instincts. Derek Carr lacks the will to win. Derek Carr has the will to try to NOT lose a game.

    All we needed yesterday was one more drive in the second half to produce points. One drive. One drive to keep our defense off the field and to give them a rest. One drive to point at least three more points on the board. One more drive and the heroics of Kyler Murray wouldn't have mattered.

    We were ahead 20-0 when Carr took his foot off the gas. He's the field general. Instead of stomping his foot on the throat of the Cardinals, Carr made the safe throws, threw the ball away, missed open receivers, didn't look downfield for a big play. He played not to lose, but what happened? We lost, because he played it too safe.

    No this loss wasn't all on Carr. There was plenty of blame to go around. Fumbles in key situations will kill you every time. But we shouldn't even have made it to overtime. We had the game in the bag, until we didn't.

    How many times have we seen a Carr-led team have a comfortable lead then take a quarter or even an entire half off? How many times have we seen a hand bring down Carr? How many times have we seen our offense sputter after clicking like a strong eight cylinder engine for most of the game? How many times have we thought, "Why won't you just run for the first down, Derek?"

    This is the enigma that is Derek Carr. He can do it all, but he won't and doesn't.

    Yesterday we saw a QB with the will to win play a QB with the will not to lose. There's a difference.

    Stabler had it. Blanda had it. Gannon had it. Carr just doesn't have it.

    Yesterday was one of the most disappointing losses I've experienced as a fan since 1967. We had this game won, until we didn't. All we needed wasa one more drive by our offense in the third or fourth quarter. One more drive to take time off the clock, to score a TD, to give our defense a rest.

    And once more, Carr just didn't get it done.
    iIm not criticizing you or trying to start a war, but yesterday was not on Carr. He’s said over and over that he tried to execute the plays the way the coaches draw them up. In the herd of coaches he’s had, NONE of them agreed with you about Carr. Devontae Adams disagrees with you about Carr. You hate Carr. I get it. Putting that game on him yesterday is complete nonsense. The guy calling the plays relaxed and got comfortable at half and took his foot off the gas. The defense as a result got tired. Once you lose the rhythm in play calling it’s tough to get it back. They moved right into position to win in OT, but blew it with a turnover. This team is quite simply not ready to go. They aren’t gelling yet, and it’s probably already too late. The offensive line still sucks, the defensive line sucks, and no defensive depth. I am COMPLETELY disgusted with what I’ve seen so far, but it ain’t all on Carr. I know you didn’t say yesterday is all on him, but you’re assigning most of it.

  3. #3

    Not all on Carr

    Quote Originally Posted by Vioraider View Post
    iIm not criticizing you or trying to start a war, but yesterday was not on Carr. He’s said over and over that he tried to execute the plays the way the coaches draw them up. In the herd of coaches he’s had, NONE of them agreed with you about Carr. Devontae Adams disagrees with you about Carr. You hate Carr. I get it. Putting that game on him yesterday is complete nonsense. The guy calling the plays relaxed and got comfortable at half and took his foot off the gas. The defense as a result got tired. Once you lose the rhythm in play calling it’s tough to get it back. They moved right into position to win in OT, but blew it with a turnover. This team is quite simply not ready to go. They aren’t gelling yet, and it’s probably already too late. The offensive line still sucks, the defensive line sucks, and no defensive depth. I am COMPLETELY disgusted with what I’ve seen so far, but it ain’t all on Carr. I know you didn’t say yesterday is all on him, but you’re assigning most of it.
    But Carr continues to miss big plays. He threw behind Adam’s in a key part of the game, nearly turning the ball over. He missed Waller on a big play, a seam route, that could have put us in a good position to add points. He can be brought down with a finger or hand easily. Add one more quality drive to our offense in the second half and the game is over.

    Do me a favor. It will take a little time but it will be revealing. Take yards passing for Carr his first three years, then divide this number by his TD passes. Now do the same for his past four seasons. Now, if you compare his yards passing to TD pass ratio for his first three years, you will find that he was an elite QB pre-injury but has been below average in this same stat the past four years. Why?

    Carr is not the same QB in the red zone post injury. He passes for a lot of yards but does not produce TD passes in a passing league. The past two games point out these struggles. Carr gets us FGs, but fails to get us in the end zone consistently.

    I am not a Carr hater. I am a Carr realist. There is a difference.

    Murray produced three TD passes on only three scoring drives. Carr produced two on five scoring drives.

    That was the difference in the game. With Waller, Renfrow and now Adam we should be producing more TDs. The constant is Carr.

  4. #4
    I’ll go ahead and ask the question. Who ya gonna get? Tank the season and draft one? Try and trade for one? Trading will get you another guy probably not as good as Carr. He is an upper half of the league qb at worst. He’s top ten in my opinion. Ask Denver how fun it is to replace a Franchise QB. Remember our own history post Gannon. They don’t grow on trees. The draft a few years ago with Josh Allen and Darnold and Rosen and Mayfield was supposed to be the greatest. Can’t miss QBs. All except Allen are SHIT. Baker has his moments, but isn’t as good as Carr.

  5. #5
    At this point, we're 0-2. We have the fourth best QB in our division. We will not be competing for the division crown anytime soon. There is no way anyone would say that Carr is better than Mahomes. Or Herbert. Or Wilson. Play Stidham. He knows the system, even better than Carr does. A QB who would have run for a first down or two yesterday could have made the difference. I did not see a single pass that Carr made that Stidham couldn't have made yesterday, too.

    In the first two games, how many times did we think, "How did Herbert escape?" or "Look at the play Murray made. That was unbelievable."

    Herbert was pressured during the first game. In fact, our defense had the fifth most pressures in the league that week. How many sacks did we get? Why didn't we get to Herbert? Because Herbert makes plays with his legs as well as his arm. He avoids the rush, extends plays with his legs and then throws the ball downfield. Herbert would love to have the receivers we have.

    How many plays did Murray make yesterday that made you go, "Wow?" Six? Seven? He threw unbelievable passes into tight windows that were completed. He extended plays with his legs. He ran the football. He was dynamic and made plays.

    Now, how many plays did Carr make the first two games that you thought were great? I can't think of a single one. He hit open receivers. He made a few good throws. He also threw INTs, missed open receivers, threw behind open receivers and led an offense that stalled when we should have put the Cardinals away.

    I believe it was before half, with the clock running down, Carr took his time at the line and audibled out of the called play. He audibled into a run that got us a couple of yards. And we took probably 30 seconds off the clock? Wouldn't we have been ahead to just spike it and save the time? No Carr, got us out of a play and we got nothing, except less time to do anything with the football.

    Carr does not always get us into the best play call. He doesn't always manage the clock well. He lacks pocket awareness. He lacks the instincts to be great. Adams caught two passes yesterday. Two passes. And he's the best receiver in football? And when he did throw it to Adams, he threw it away from him or behind him on two occasions.

    Why is it that Mac Jones, as a rookie, played well in McDaniels' system last year (actually had a better QBR for the season than Carr has in the first two games), but Carr, a veteran, is struggling in the same system? Could it be that Carr is a large part of the problem? Could it be that Carr will just never be a GREAT QB?

    Surround him with the league's best offensive line, elite receivers, a top 5 running game and a defense that creates turnovers and he will win for us. But the same could be said for two thirds of the league's quarterbacks. The elite quarterbacks like Herbert and Murray get it done with a surrounding cast that is less than what Carr currently has surrounding him.

    At this point, I want to see Stidham. Notice how the offense clicked during the preseason with him at the helm? He knows the system. Sure, it was preseason, but he is more athletic, more apt to run, and knows the system very well.
    Last edited by raiderman41; 09-19-2022 at 04:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Yeah that’s the answer. I want Stidham in there too. He isn’t a starter at all. And no offense, but you have no idea about play calls and whether or not Carr is putting them in the right ones or not. The offensive line changes series to series and that’s a big problem. Did you see Wilson yesterday at all? I’ll take Carr over him every time.

  7. #7
    I don't understand the point of view, that you are a Carr hater when you state the truth and admit what exactly happens on the field, day in and day out, year in and year out!
    It is mind boggling!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Coachdd11 View Post
    I don't understand the point of view, that you are a Carr hater when you state the truth and admit what exactly happens on the field, day in and day out, year in and year out!
    It is mind boggling!
    So the loss is all on Carr, right?

  9. #9
    Great QBs can find the open receiver most of the time, average QBs cannot.

    How do you find the open receiver? Go through your progressions quickly.

    Wait, what if there is no time to do that? Then you need to make time with your feet.

    Wait, what if I don't like to run. You don't have to run, but maybe you can do a side step here or there.

    Wait, thats not easy to do. Exactly, great QBs have pocket presence while still being able to look down field and buying some time to let their receivers get open.

    Bringing in Adams was not the answer for Carr. He doesn't need a #1 receiver, he needs a #1 O-line. He needs an O-line that can give him time to:

    1. not worry about pressure
    2. give him time to make sure his receiver is open enough so that he KNOWS he won't throw an interception

    If you give Carr this, then Carr can beat anyone.

    Wait, Carr is in a new system and it takes time to get used to it. That may be true, but it still doesn't answer why the ball was underthrown or behind receivers when the route was clearly indicated.

    Maybe having too much weapons for Carr is not a good thing for him. Carr at this point cannot make use of them. Surely with Waller, Renfrow, Adams, and Hollins, someone must be open or single covered. I think Adams is seeing that Carr is not the Carr he used to know in college. This is a Carr that has been battered in 2016 and is just a shell of himself now. Sure he may have some shining moments from time to time which gives us all hope and gives the Carr crusaders more reason to blindly back him.

    Wait look at his statistics, they are far and away better than any Raider before him. It should be, its a passing league now and his stats better be higher than the guys before him. That means Carr is a better QB than Stabler, Plunket and Gannon. I would beg to differ. You can't even hit the QB now without getting some kind of penalty, I don't think Carr would last one season during the 70s and 80s.

    Wait, Carr has shown he's tough and he comes back from injury. That is true, you can't take that away from him and I commend him for that, he is tough physically, but mentally is where he falls a bit short. I'm not saying he isn't smart, because he is, but he just can't forget about the time he got hurt and that has affected his game. I mean who could blame him, anyone would be hesitant after the beating he took. But being an great NFL QB takes a different breed of person. You need a short memory and be able to stand in that pocket or elude D-lineman when needed. Andrew Luck knew he didn't have it in him already, he retired early. And that guy was one tough QB.

    We all like Carr as a person, he's a great guy, great teammate, great family man, but he's just isn't the same QB he used to be. I was hoping we wouldn't have these conversations this season, but here we are. Last season Carr did great in my opinion. This season, not so much so far.

  10. #10
    Carr got paid and then lost any heart he had. He's a fraud. All his weaknesses that were noted coming out of college still ride him today. The last 12 games he has regressed horribly. His feet and hips were all over the place yesterday. Still making rookie mistakes. He plays scared. Hes mentally weak and a coach killer. The TURD needs to go.

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