The anticipation builds

[Silver Fox]

I can not wait until we finally get to see Art Shell in action again. Then we can finally start dominating the league once again!:callyax:

[Raider5000]

yep

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by Silver Fox

I can not wait until we finally get to see Art Shell in action again. Then we can finally start dominating the league once again!:callyax:

Oh..uh...hmmm...not sure how to tell you this...but..Art doesn't play anymore.

No. He coaches now.

Last time around he did anything but dominate the league.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that.

Ok, I'm not. But I should be

[RaiderFreak00]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

Oh..uh...hmmm...not sure how to tell you this...but..Art doesn't play anymore.

No. He coaches now.

Last time around he did anything but dominate the league.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that.

Ok, I'm not. But I should be

Oh no, you're sorry alright. Like your QB.. and your team.

[Imasmashu]

Shell was a solid head coach, with a winning season. We'll see what he does. At this point, his record is much better than Mike Nolan's record, meaning, he's been tested and he is a true Winner!

What the thread starter meant was that Shell is entering the HC position to bring back the Raiders "swagger" and "attitude." These are words directly from Al Davis. As a player, Shell was dominant; as a coach he was a strong leader and winner. Davis believes, and the rest of us believe that he understands this organization down to the roots and that he will work this team to a road of dominance.

[OG BAMM BAMM]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

Oh..uh...hmmm...not sure how to tell you this...but..Art doesn't play anymore.

No. He coaches now.

Last time around he did anything but dominate the league.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that.

Ok, I'm not. But I should be

Art Shell had a winning record as the head coach and this time around he has twice the amount of talent then he had back in the day.

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by Imasmashu

Shell was a solid head coach, with a winning season. We'll see what he does. At this point, his record is much better than Mike Nolan's record, meaning, he's been tested and he is a true Winner!

What the thread starter meant was that Shell is entering the HC position to bring back the Raiders "swagger" and "attitude." These are words directly from Al Davis. As a player, Shell was dominant; as a coach he was a strong leader and winner. Davis believes, and the rest of us believe that he understands this organization down to the roots and that he will work this team to a road of dominance.

I know what he meant, lol..and disagree with him, and you.

Many disagree with him being a solid head coach. He was hardly in control, and it was obvious to all that Al ran things at the time. Now he's occasionally a presence on the field, (inappropriately so, of course). Then he was there as much as the coaches were, or damn close to it.

With the group of players you had at the time, many, including Al believes the team massively underproduced.

As far as Al's "bringing back the swagger and attitude"?? Doesn't Al say that for every coach? Seriously..he said it when he hired Joe BUGEL, for crying out loud. Do you really believe a coach that didn't bring the "swagger" the first time is now going to just show up and VOILA'..swagger galore?
Don't think so, all smack aside. Art was anything but a disciplinearian his first time around. Why do you expect a big change now? The Raiders led the league, under Art's leadership, year after year in stupid penalties, the drive killing false starts, the late hits, the offsides, etc..not the "roughing the passer" ones or "unsportsmanlike conduct"..that you might say "makes them think twice before they do that again", it was the ones that gave the opponents yards, and took yards away from your team.

I believe it's best of Raider fans do NOT state as you guys are, for a reason.

It's damn hard to turn a team around. It takes a LOT of things to go right for a team to win, much less turn a season around. Believing that you are now at that stage just sets you guys up to fall.

A year or two? More likely. Now? whew...good luck.

I think just your OC and the fact that same Waffle Cook is going to be formulating an offense for a as yet to be named qb to run makes it even a more daunting task.

[apollo11]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

I know what he meant, lol..and disagree with him, and you.

Many disagree with him being a solid head coach. He was hardly in control, and it was obvious to all that Al ran things at the time. Now he's occasionally a presence on the field, (inappropriately so, of course). Then he was there as much as the coaches were, or damn close to it.

With the group of players you had at the time, many, including Al believes the team massively underproduced.

As far as Al's "bringing back the swagger and attitude"?? Doesn't Al say that for every coach? Seriously..he said it when he hired Joe BUGEL, for crying out loud. Do you really believe a coach that didn't bring the "swagger" the first time is now going to just show up and VOILA'..swagger galore?
Don't think so, all smack aside. Art was anything but a disciplinearian his first time around. Why do you expect a big change now? The Raiders led the league, under Art's leadership, year after year in stupid penalties, the drive killing false starts, the late hits, the offsides, etc..not the "roughing the passer" ones or "unsportsmanlike conduct"..that you might say "makes them think twice before they do that again", it was the ones that gave the opponents yards, and took yards away from your team.

I believe it's best of Raider fans do NOT state as you guys are, for a reason.

It's damn hard to turn a team around. It takes a LOT of things to go right for a team to win, much less turn a season around. Believing that you are now at that stage just sets you guys up to fall.

A year or two? More likely. Now? whew...good luck.

I think just your OC and the fact that same Waffle Cook is going to be formulating an offense for a as yet to be named qb to run makes it even a more daunting task.

That sounds about right.

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by OG BAMM BAMM

Art Shell had a winning record as the head coach and this time around he has twice the amount of talent then he had back in the day.

WHAT??? Twice the amount of talent?

How do you figure that?

[madstork]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

WHAT??? Twice the amount of talent?

How do you figure that?

I agree with you there, he doesn't have twice the talent this time. Remember Howie Long, Greg Townsend, etc.? But this year's team is better in some areas, including WR, LB, and yes, even QB where I would take Brooks over Schroeder in a heartbeat.

You also point out that it's hard to turn around a team. But Shell has done that. Say what you will about penalties, but this team was in the top 3 when Gruden was here too. Tom Coughlin is the most notorious "disciplinarian" in the NFL and the Giants almost matched Turner's Raiders penalty for penalty last year. Yet they went to the playoffs.

Again, Shell took over a 1-3 team in the middle of a season (one of the hardest things for any coach to do without a full training camp) and went 7-5 the rest of the way. 12-4 the following year. He only had 1 losing season in his 5 plus years at the helm, and that was 7-9 amidst the Marcus Allen implosion. He handled the chaos around him extremely well for a first time head coach and he has a lot more experience to draw on this time.

I'm not saying he's Vince Lombardi, but all the waffle jokes in the world can't support the case that Nolan is a more proven commodity than Shell at this point.

[cad]

Originally Posted by madstork

I agree with you there, he doesn't have twice the talent this time. Remember Howie Long, Greg Townsend, etc.? But this year's team is better in some areas, including WR, LB, and yes, even QB where I would take Brooks over Schroeder in a heartbeat.

You also point out that it's hard to turn around a team. But Shell has done that. Say what you will about penalties, but this team was in the top 3 when Gruden was here too. Tom Coughlin is the most notorious "disciplinarian" in the NFL and the Giants almost matched Turner's Raiders penalty for penalty last year. Yet they went to the playoffs.

Again, Shell took over a 1-3 team in the middle of a season (one of the hardest things for any coach to do without a full training camp) and went 7-5 the rest of the way. 12-4 the following year. He only had 1 losing season in his 5 plus years at the helm, and that was 7-9 amidst the Marcus Allen implosion. He handled the chaos around him extremely well for a first time head coach and he has a lot more experience to draw on this time.

I'm not saying he's Vince Lombardi, but all the waffle jokes in the world can't support the case that Nolan is a more proven commodity than Shell at this point.

well thought out post

[Silver Fox]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

I know what he meant, lol..and disagree with him, and you.

Many disagree with him being a solid head coach. He was hardly in control, and it was obvious to all that Al ran things at the time. Now he's occasionally a presence on the field, (inappropriately so, of course). Then he was there as much as the coaches were, or damn close to it.

With the group of players you had at the time, many, including Al believes the team massively underproduced.

As far as Al's "bringing back the swagger and attitude"?? Doesn't Al say that for every coach? Seriously..he said it when he hired Joe BUGEL, for crying out loud. Do you really believe a coach that didn't bring the "swagger" the first time is now going to just show up and VOILA'..swagger galore?
Don't think so, all smack aside. Art was anything but a disciplinearian his first time around. Why do you expect a big change now? The Raiders led the league, under Art's leadership, year after year in stupid penalties, the drive killing false starts, the late hits, the offsides, etc..not the "roughing the passer" ones or "unsportsmanlike conduct"..that you might say "makes them think twice before they do that again", it was the ones that gave the opponents yards, and took yards away from your team.

I believe it's best of Raider fans do NOT state as you guys are, for a reason.

It's damn hard to turn a team around. It takes a LOT of things to go right for a team to win, much less turn a season around. Believing that you are now at that stage just sets you guys up to fall.

A year or two? More likely. Now? whew...good luck.

I think just your OC and the fact that same Waffle Cook is going to be formulating an offense for a as yet to be named qb to run makes it even a more daunting task.

Does anyone even care about the queers from Frisco bay anymore? What a bad aftertaste the Frisco boys have left in the mouthes of the league.You can take all of your rings and pawn them for some dignity and respect cause you ain't gonna get it here chump!

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by madstork

I agree with you there, he doesn't have twice the talent this time. Remember Howie Long, Greg Townsend, etc.? But this year's team is better in some areas, including WR, LB, and yes, even QB where I would take Brooks over Schroeder in a heartbeat.

Yeah..and guys like Marcus Allen, Bo Jackson, etc..Shell's team, at that time, was definitely stronger than the one he now inherits.

You also point out that it's hard to turn around a team. But Shell has done that. Say what you will about penalties, but this team was in the top 3 when Gruden was here too. Tom Coughlin is the most notorious "disciplinarian" in the NFL and the Giants almost matched Turner's Raiders penalty for penalty last year. Yet they went to the playoffs.

Turn around a team? Hmm..he took over for your guys favorite coach to love, Shanahan (did Al ever send him his 250K? ) after the season started, and while winning a string of games, you still only ended up at 8-8. Not exactly spell binding numbers there. That was WITH M.Allen and Bo Jackson. Following year you did get in playoffs, but somehow that 51-3 pasting the Bills put on you ended the season. Yes, Shell was the coach. Yes, Shell had the horses. As far as penalties? Not sure what your point is. If it's "you can lead the league in penalties, and still win"..SURE. EXCEPT with Shell first time around, you led the league in penalties and DIDN'T win. Big difference. MY point is Shell is NOT a disciplinearian. He doesn't run a tight ship. Now, here's a reality check for ya, that I've stated many times..the reason his words fall on deft ears is because he's not the guy the players fear, at least his first trip around. Players know the coach does NOT control who plays or sits..and that is just plain wrong.

Again, Shell took over a 1-3 team in the middle of a season (one of the hardest things for any coach to do without a full training camp) and went 7-5 the rest of the way. 12-4 the following year. He only had 1 losing season in his 5 plus years at the helm, and that was 7-9 amidst the Marcus Allen implosion. He handled the chaos around him extremely well for a first time head coach and he has a lot more experience to draw on this time.

Marcus Allen implosion? lmao...uh...me thinks thou has viewed history incorrectly. That was more the "AL'S PISSED...SIT ALLEN...THAT WILL TEACH HIM' chapter. Wasn't that about the time Al decided to really piss off Allen, and hired yet another Niner castoff in Roger Craig? lol..I think so.
With the defense the Raiders had, and the talent on both sides of the ball, fans, reporters, and Al all agreed that Shell just wasn't getting the team to the next level. As far as "a lot more experience to draw from this time'??? I'm assuming you mean his own personal experiance, because you sure as hell aren't talking about the coaching staff. Uh..Shell had two brief stints after Al fired him..AND THAT'S IT. With KC, and I think Atlanta. After being fired from those, NO ONE gave him a sniff..as in no one.

Since then, look at the debacle you guys have had.

Riddle me this, Raider fans.

You hired among others, Joe Bugel..arguably the sorriest coaching hire of all time (T. Brown to media: Game plans SUCK. Bugel to team: No airing our dirty laundry to media, do it HERE. T. Brown: GAME PLAN SUCKS. Bugel: Meeting OVER. T. Brown: We'll just call our own plays.) Why did Al NOT go back and hire Shell, instead of Bugel?

You hire Callahan? Why not Shell??

You hire Turner? Why not Shell??

You so desperately wanted to hire anyone but Shell this last year..and you ended up with basically the only guy who would take the job..Shell. AM I WRONG?? Did you even have an option B??? Was it ever "Between Shell and ____??"

Save the "we didn't make any offers"..of COURSE YOU DIDN'T. How could you? You have asst coach after asst coach sending you memo's stating "DON'T BOTHER, NOT INTERESTED"

So, why is Shell all of a sudden the man "to bring back the Raider edge"?

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