The anticipation builds

[Swoosh23]

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

Awww...someone need a blanky? lol. I say it because you DON't, wandering babbling boob. "It's Brooks, It's Walter. Brooks sucked, but will be great. Walter never played..HE'LL be great"...again...WHO'S YOUR QB?

1) its funny how Niner fans can make fun of any ones qb positions and still think their's is okay

No, what's funny is you sit in front of your keyboard, push down keys, read that stupid crap above, and then decide "yeah, that works"..and you hit submit. That is DAMN funny...even for you, Marsupial lover. See above about don't post stupid **** just to see your name. Gee..that's funny..the reports stated Walter looked LOST in minicamps, and that they were sure it was "just jittlers..he'll be fine". See above about you feeling the need to post, regardless of the outcome. Now, training camp is coming up. It's helpful in all kinds of ways, including posters. Now is the time to get that silly "duh, had to say it again" stuff out of the way, so it doesn't clutter things up in 3 weeks. Saints benched his sorry ass. The SAINTS. Yep..those same lowly bottom of the barrel, oh damn we suck, Saints...benched Brooks worthless pathetic ass because he SUCKED.
Oh..that's right..you just pleaded like a child "don't say it again...I CAN'T TAKE IT'. Well, ok..just for you, I won't say it again.

Now, Blubbering Roo, don't go pull a worthless stat from YEARS AGO..last two years the guy literally fell apart out on the field. Would make a great play, then throw it right into arms of defender. Would elude the rush, then fumble the ball away.

Now Roo, my advice to you is just accept the fact the Saints benched his sorryass, and move on.

Oh snap..I did it again..didn't I?

Darn. I was so sure I wasn't.

I hate it when I do that.[/quote]

Mike I dont know what reports you read but I am sure they arent the ones of people who actually know anything about football and are actually at the camps, We had Dee and Rhode there, we have had other members talk to some of the players as well, and all reports state just what the members have told you about Walter, not what some Raider hatin media member wrote. It would be like me reading one post about how Smith got picked by a rookie saftey in training camp and then makeing a report to say that he has no decision making skills and just throws ints.. even tho thats what his stats show, its not necessarily the case now is it?

[billwilliams70]

Good post Mike. I've been a Raiders fan for a long time now, but I've learned not to go through life with Silver & Black blinders on.

I like the idea of Art Shell coming in and taking charge, but I've stated once and I'll state it again.....he won't. This is Mr. Davis' team and he's in charge.

Think about it guys and gals....when Shell was named coach, what was the first thing that you thought of? The first? Was it his winning season? Was it that he was a Raider? Was it that he was also fired from this job? This isn't the Yankees and it's not Steinbrenner and Martin we're talking about here.....it's our Raiders. We all know that Mr. Davis hasn't made the best of decisions in the recent past concerning this team. Mike's right, every coach since we've really lost it is going to return that "swagger and attitude." The only one that's done it was Gruden. Because when it comes down to it, our "swagger and attitude" isn't there if we're not in the Super Bowl.

Just my two lincolns.

Later.

Originally Posted by Mike-49er

I know what he meant, lol..and disagree with him, and you.

Many disagree with him being a solid head coach. He was hardly in control, and it was obvious to all that Al ran things at the time. Now he's occasionally a presence on the field, (inappropriately so, of course). Then he was there as much as the coaches were, or damn close to it.

With the group of players you had at the time, many, including Al believes the team massively underproduced.

As far as Al's "bringing back the swagger and attitude"?? Doesn't Al say that for every coach? Seriously..he said it when he hired Joe BUGEL, for crying out loud. Do you really believe a coach that didn't bring the "swagger" the first time is now going to just show up and VOILA'..swagger galore?
Don't think so, all smack aside. Art was anything but a disciplinearian his first time around. Why do you expect a big change now? The Raiders led the league, under Art's leadership, year after year in stupid penalties, the drive killing false starts, the late hits, the offsides, etc..not the "roughing the passer" ones or "unsportsmanlike conduct"..that you might say "makes them think twice before they do that again", it was the ones that gave the opponents yards, and took yards away from your team.

I believe it's best of Raider fans do NOT state as you guys are, for a reason.

It's damn hard to turn a team around. It takes a LOT of things to go right for a team to win, much less turn a season around. Believing that you are now at that stage just sets you guys up to fall.

A year or two? More likely. Now? whew...good luck.

I think just your OC and the fact that same Waffle Cook is going to be formulating an offense for a as yet to be named qb to run makes it even a more daunting task.

[xpiratexshipx]

Why dont you worry about your sorry ass team mikey. Id be more concerned with alex 'pretty boy' smith and his embarrassing performance from last year....even with dilfer there, you guys still blow. Enjoy getting beat by us on the 8th of october.

[SlowLane]

Why are you arguing with this freak homo???
Agreed, if you want to discuss ****ty teams of recent date a 49er fan is the way to go.

Mike, you're annoying and gay and don't know anything about Raider football (I am sure now you are thinking of all the Raider facts that you can reply with to try to make us respect you ... can't speak for everyone but it wouldn't matter - you suck regardless what you think you know!)

How about you go talk about your assheaded faggot team on your own assheaded faggot message board?
You ****ing retard "others" who spend more time here than we do simply break my balls ... W H Y ?????
Get a ****ing life for real ... go lobby for gay marriage or something with your jack off free time.

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by Swoosh23

Mike I dont know what reports you read but I am sure they arent the ones of people who actually know anything about football and are actually at the camps, We had Dee and Rhode there, we have had other members talk to some of the players as well, and all reports state just what the members have told you about Walter, not what some Raider hatin media member wrote. It would be like me reading one post about how Smith got picked by a rookie saftey in training camp and then makeing a report to say that he has no decision making skills and just throws ints.. even tho thats what his stats show, its not necessarily the case now is it?

Honestly don't know if it was a "raider hating media" or not..considering the SF Chron, Oak Trib, and SJ Merc are full of both Niner and Raider "**** disturbing, know nothing, head up ass, say something stupid doesn't matter" hater reporters, you might be right.

Although it wasn't a major to do. Was simply that mini camp he struggled. I'm not making a big deal of anyone struggling on any camp, ever. Means little. As does preseason. Rarely does preseason give an indication of what's to come in the regular season.

My comment was refuting the comment stating Walter was tearing it up.

Actually, all Raider practices are closed to public, and reporters. Nothing that comes out of your training camp does so without the Raiders wording it.
In other words, it means about as much as the reporters takes...both are for sensationalism, nothing more.

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by xpiratexshipx

Why dont you worry about your sorry ass team mikey. Id be more concerned with alex 'pretty boy' smith and his embarrassing performance from last year....even with dilfer there, you guys still blow. Enjoy getting beat by us on the 8th of october.

"Pretty boy" Smith??

Never heard him referred to that way.

You have a thing for Smith?

Good luck with that.

You go girl.

[Imasmashu]

Mike,

I've read a couple of your posts and what you're saying in regard to coach interest in the Raiders and Al Davis having no resort is not true. Not only did Davis clarify this in the media by saying that he offered the position to only 1 other candidate, but the Raiders had several calls/interviews for the HC position with several candidates/agents. Common sense tells you that an interview, by the interviewer and interviewee, constitutes interest.

Davis clearly states the subjective issues surrounding head coaching in the NFL. Go and listen to his introductory speech at the press release when he hired Shell, you might learn something.

Your opinions are pessimistic because of your desire to make it appear as though the Raiders have made a last resort, leftover decision with Shell. I say that Davis felt that Shell 'understood' the Raider tradition more than the other candidates and that he felt more comfortable and trusting that Shell would take the job and have an immediately solid, positive impact; especially, since his (Al's) physical ability is clearly on the decline. Al gave Shell complete control and it showed once he handed the floor to Shell. Its obvious that he gave Shell the latitude to run the team the way he saw fit to make that immediate impact.

Shell already has the Raider fans excited because of his immediate attention to our most pressing issues: got rid of dead weight (Woodson, D. Walker, Ted Washington, Kerry Collins) and keeping the anchors like Rob Ryan (defensive players supported Rob Ryan's scheme and given injuries and lacks of depth he responded respectably; team morale (zero tolerance for uncooperating players; a promise for full contact training camp to improve team chemistry, lower mental mistakes; hire a mobile qb with good armstrength, veteran leadership and star potential; respond to depth issues with offseason aqcuisitions and good quality draft picks; make all players "accountable" by clearly stating that all positions are up for grabs and having a contact training camp; stressing the importance of competition against division rivals by speaking of his experience at KC.

More than any other quality, I like the Shell choice because of his Hall of Fame status and track record influence on the Offensive Line. I thought one of our prominent issues last year was horrible play by the O line. Jackie Slater and Art Shell are doing what they need to do in order to change that. Given Shell's track record, I believe they will.

Going from 4-12 to 12-4 is unlikely, but I feel cofident in at least an 8-8 season based on the above changes I've seen by Shell and the organization.

[billwilliams70]

Originally Posted by Imasmashu

Mike,

I've read a couple of your posts and what you're saying in regard to coach interest in the Raiders and Al Davis having no resort is not true. Not only did Davis clarify this in the media by saying that he offered the position to only 1 other candidate, but the Raiders had several calls/interviews for the HC position with several candidates/agents. Common sense tells you that an interview, by the interviewer and interviewee, constitutes interest.

Davis clearly states the subjective issues surrounding head coaching in the NFL. Go and listen to his introductory speech at the press release when he hired Shell, you might learn something.

Your opinions are pessimistic because of your desire to make it appear as though the Raiders have made a last resort, leftover decision with Shell. I say that Davis felt that Shell 'understood' the Raider tradition more than the other candidates and that he felt more comfortable and trusting that Shell would take the job and have an immediately solid, positive impact; especially, since his (Al's) physical ability is clearly on the decline. Al gave Shell complete control and it showed once he handed the floor to Shell. Its obvious that he gave Shell the latitude to run the team the way he saw fit to make that immediate impact.

Shell already has the Raider fans excited because of his immediate attention to our most pressing issues: got rid of dead weight (Woodson, D. Walker, Ted Washington, Kerry Collins) and keeping the anchors like Rob Ryan (defensive players supported Rob Ryan's scheme and given injuries and lacks of depth he responded respectably; team morale (zero tolerance for uncooperating players; a promise for full contact training camp to improve team chemistry, lower mental mistakes; hire a mobile qb with good armstrength, veteran leadership and star potential; respond to depth issues with offseason aqcuisitions and good quality draft picks; make all players "accountable" by clearly stating that all positions are up for grabs and having a contact training camp; stressing the importance of competition against division rivals by speaking of his experience at KC.

More than any other quality, I like the Shell choice because of his Hall of Fame status and track record influence on the Offensive Line. I thought one of our prominent issues last year was horrible play by the O line. Jackie Slater and Art Shell are doing what they need to do in order to change that. Given Shell's track record, I believe they will.

Going from 4-12 to 12-4 is unlikely, but I feel cofident in at least an 8-8 season based on the above changes I've seen by Shell and the organization.

Imashashu.....you make extremely valid points, and as a Raiders fan, I hope your 100% correct in every one of your assessments. But I just can't shake the feeling that Coach Shell won't have complete control should things take a bad turn. I don't believe that Mr. Davis has the patience to wait things out and let Coach Shell handle things his way.

Later.

[Mike-49er]

Originally Posted by Imasmashu

Mike,

I've read a couple of your posts and what you're saying in regard to coach interest in the Raiders and Al Davis having no resort is not true. Not only did Davis clarify this in the media by saying that he offered the position to only 1 other candidate, but the Raiders had several calls/interviews for the HC position with several candidates/agents. Common sense tells you that an interview, by the interviewer and interviewee, constitutes interest.

Several calls? Sure..Saunders came out and interviewed. Afterwards he stated "Not interested" and went back and signed a lucrative contract to stay where he was. Martz came out and interviewed. Left and stated "not interested in the job" indicating to me that he, too, left not comfortable with his discussion with Al. Anyone the Raiders talked to, including Wiz, stated "Uh, no thanks. Not interested..don't bother making an offer" Am I right?

Davis clearly states the subjective issues surrounding head coaching in the NFL. Go and listen to his introductory speech at the press release when he hired Shell, you might learn something.

Speeches are neat, aren't they? I like them too. Ever hear a politician's speech? boy, you just feel great don't ya? Only problem is..it's just words. Now, I'm curious, why don't you cut and paste that speech as I would love to see what you're referring to as his feelings on "subjective" issues regarding his coach. Subjective terms such as..oh..say "Who's in charge"? lol

Your opinions are pessimistic because of your desire to make it appear as though the Raiders have made a last resort, leftover decision with Shell. I say that Davis felt that Shell 'understood' the Raider tradition more than the other candidates and that he felt more comfortable and trusting that Shell would take the job and have an immediately solid, positive impact; especially, since his (Al's) physical ability is clearly on the decline. Al gave Shell complete control and it showed once he handed the floor to Shell. Its obvious that he gave Shell the latitude to run the team the way he saw fit to make that immediate impact.

Uh..I'm sorry..but didn't Al do the exact same thing with Turner? Callahan? Gruden? "The FUTURE OF THE RAIDERS..and gave them the floor? Shell WAS his last resort. If he WASN"T, please, tell me who his other options were? Wasn't the Raiders waiting for Wiz?? Yes..they were. All during SB week the talk was tossed up about "Raiders are going to hire Wiz"..right after SB..Wiz..IN FOR AN INTERVIEW. There was not ONE WORD MENTIONED ABOUT ART SHELL IN THAT WHOLE TIME..was there? IF he was NOT a last resort, wouldn't he at least have been tossed out in the "it's between Shell and Wiz'?? On every Raider board, all you read was WE'RE GOING TO GET WIZ..I heard a lot of smack, directed at moi" ( know, go figure ) that "NOW WE HAVE WIZ..WE'RE GOING TO KICK ASS".no onw..as in NO ONE mentioned "But hey, I hope we get SHELL". Why is that? Seriously,..my point is no Raider fan was all giddy that Shell "might" be back, most of them never gave it a second thought. When Wiz stated to his agent to pass on to the Raiders that he wasn't interested, then you were down to "Who's left"" Who, besides Shell, was left?

Shell already has the Raider fans excited because of his immediate attention to our most pressing issues: got rid of dead weight (Woodson, D. Walker, Ted Washington, Kerry Collins)

Shell didn't get rid of them, Al did.

and keeping the anchors like Rob Ryan (defensive players supported Rob Ryan's scheme and given injuries and lacks of depth he responded respectably; team morale (zero tolerance for uncooperating players;

Mike Martz was also gestapo..backfired on him, big time. besides, where did you read that's in effect "zero tolerance'?

a promise for full contact training camp to improve team chemistry, lower mental mistakes;

I'm sorry, but honestly that's ignorant. There is a reason you DON't have full contact, and it's because of injury possibility. Speaking of Mental Midget Martz..that dummy, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON, decided "we're going to have full contact Wednesdays to cut down on mistakes"..it didn't..what it did was have players all banged up for Sunday. That too backfired on him {quote]hire a mobile qb with good armstrength, veteran leadership and star potential; [/quote] Brooks was NEVER viewed as a leader..far from it. As a matter of fact, it's on record that he pissed off lots of players AND fans because he would be on the sidelines, laughing and h'yuking it up right after he made a bad play, or the team would be struggling. Sorry, he's far from a leader and has never been viewed as one. Star potential?? geez..guy got benched by the lowly Saints for getting progressively worse over a two year period, and Art believes he has "star potential'? Hell, by that standards, so do I (no, really..I do..ask Kit ) [quote]respond to depth issues with offseason aqcuisitions and good quality draft picks; [/qoote] these are all nifty words, but I'm sorry, they're hallow. First off Shell did NONE of these things, not his job..but..that said..you passed up a key marquee MAYBE star qb of your future for yet another DBack..Raiders had one of THE SLOWEST offseasons of any team..easily in the bottom 5. Even fans were complaining about "why aren't we SIGNING ANYONE?"

make all players "accountable" by clearly stating that all positions are up for grabs and having a contact training camp; stressing the importance of competition against division rivals by speaking of his experience at KC.

again, I'm sorry, but you just said things that wll help no one. All the players know Al decides. All the players know if they have starter money, THEY'RE A STARTER. Of course other positions are up for "he who plays best"..every team does that. It's not like it's a new revelation, right? As far as KC?? Uh...his time with KC..OVER A DECADE AGO?? Trust me..if any player on the Raiders needs to be told how important rival games are, being told a KC story isn't going to help, lol.
I'm sure the players already know you got swept by the division, and how important division games are to a teams probablity of playoff possibilities. That goes without saying, I believe.

More than any other quality, I like the Shell choice because of his Hall of Fame status and track record influence on the Offensive Line. I thought one of our prominent issues last year was horrible play by the O line. Jackie Slater and Art Shell are doing what they need to do in order to change that. Given Shell's track record, I believe they will.

They're doing what they need to do? Uh..what, exactly would that be? What is Shell doing that any/every other coach is doing? Do you really believe a coach who was a player has more knowledge on a position because he played? He doesn't..at all. It's coaches that taught HIM. These guys all know all of the techniques. They have classes, day after day after day to discuss techniques. Yes, Shell was one of those that did his job very well, but stating he has any knowledge that any other non playing coach has is silly. If that were the case, then every single retired player would be desired as a coach. They're not, because all they have that's different is the ability to do it better.

Going from 4-12 to 12-4 is unlikely, but I feel cofident in at least an 8-8 season based on the above changes I've seen by Shell and the organization.

8-8 might be possible..problem I see is you play in a pretty solid division right now.

Niners are pretty much in the same boat.

Your Denver is our Seattle
Your KC is our Rams. Both of us need at least a split.
Your SD is our Cards. Both of us need at least a split.

Good post. BTW.

[apollo11]

San diego is your cardinals? I think you are reaching on that one and has yet to be seen. Are you saying we are the worst team in the west this year? If so, explain.

[SlowLane]

Oh, I can do that (you owe me one Mike) ...
the chargers SUCK BALLS. Sure, there's some great talent but when the dust settles ... You Are LOSERS every time : )

[madstork]

[quote=Mike-49er]

Actually it's not better than Gruden. Gruden was marginally better. Gruden took over from Bungling Bugel, and had two 8-8 seasons.

Not going to nitpick but they both took over mutinous squads who openly rebelled against the last coach. Doing it in midseason without the benefit of minicamps and training camp made Shell's job a little tougher IMO.

No, being in control, instilling discipline, and following through makes you scary. Shell was NONE of the above. He was NOT in control. He sure as hell didn't instill discipline because everyone knew he wasn't going to follow through on anything. After all, Al's in control. (BTW..that IS why you had zero applicants for the job, now..isn't it? ) Gruden was about as vocal as you can get. He made it clear who was in charge. He let players know "Don't F**K with me"..is that what you meant? If so, HELL YEAH..players knew he was the man. Did they feel that about Art? NO. Wonderful. When I need someone to read me a book, I know who to go to. Unfornately football is a game that you have very FEW meek and mild coaches running teams. I'm taking a wildass guess here, but I'm guessing that Art is already in the top 5 of "softest, quietest" coaches in the league. Am I right?

No, you're not right. I hope you padded your SAT scores on the math side because your reading comprehension is lacking. Did you even bother to read what Golic said? Instead of offering my opinion, or your opinion, or the opinion of a sportswriter, I gave you the opinion of a guy who was there and played for him. Not good enough? The man said Shell could put the whole team on edge with a look. Doesn't sound meek to me.

When you work for a control freak like Al Davis, where every single player knows that he makes the calls, then I believe the 'cuddly bear" bit doesn't go over as well.
What do you think? You think he'll command respect by being meek?

Again, he never has been meek, so I don't buy your premise. He'll command respect by setting guidelines and making players accountable, which is something that reportedly has already happened. Sporting News:

"Raiders coach Art Shell is cognizant of the disrespect some players showed his predecessors, Norv Turner and Bill Callahan. Shell has made it clear such behavior won't be tolerated on his watch. To prove it, he called out a few players and told them they won't be around if they undermine his authority or threaten team unity. . . . "

Do you think he's dumb enough to tell guys they won't be around if he has NO ability to make it happen? Neil Hayes of the Contra Costa Times reported that Shell has a 4 year deal that is in actuality a lifetime deal because Davis wants him here in the front office after he's gone. He sure as hell didn't have that in his back pocket last time around; no Raider coach ever has. He got burned by the Marcus Allen thing last time, it appears to me that he learned from it. Although it must be pointed out that the Raiders went 19-13 after Allen left, so even that didn't make players lose respect for him in the manner you seem to think they did. I know what it looks like when the players don't respect the coach. It looks like the Raiders of the last three years.

Well, he had 5 DIFFERENT CHANCES to hire Art..and declined on all of them. Instead, he's hired because not a single other coach in the NFL was interested in the job..right? You've not addressed this once, nor has anyone else. Art was NEVER in the running for the head coaching job this year. Comments were "Raiders want Wiz..have to wait until SB is over"..after Wiz declined even being made an offer, then Al called Shell. No mention of him during the whole process..at all. He was an after thought, and now Al's running the "Back to respectability" takes, to save face.

Fact is, neither of us really know how it went down this year. I do know it's been reported that Davis and Shell started talking the week before the Super Bowl, in other words a week before the sit down with Wiz. And Willis the Raider on this very site (I'm sure you know who he is) called Shell a front runner the day after Turner was fired. Willis seems to know what's going on over there, so maybe we shouldn't believe everything we read in the papers about the most secretive organization in sports.

Ben isn't responsible for formulating plays..the OC is..you know, Walsh. Ben isn't responsible for coming up with schemes to confuse defenses..Walsh is. Ben just has to listen and execute the play called, and along the way read the defense. No comparison. It was Bill Walsh that had defenses muttering "We had NO IDEA what the Niners were going to do next"..that was him and his OC coming up with a plan.

No kidding, of course Ben doesn't design the offense, but let me put it this way. If Montana can't understand the playbook, read the defense, and execute properly in game situations, it didn't matter what (Bill) Walsh called. I'm saying the Steelers' offense is one of the simplest in the league BECAUSE the coordinator has to account for Ben's stupidity and lack of experience at this point. Come on now, when the Steelers win all these games with Ben attempting 14 passes, do you marvel at the complexity of that offense?

Actually, as I've stated, I like Shell and always have respected him.

I can just feel the respect!

My point was Schott kicks ass. Are you saying he led the NFL in penalties and did NOTHING?? Seriously, is that what you're alluding to, that he just let it slide?
Good coaches NEVER just let it slike.

Even the penalty argument is a little silly (just a little). Coaches whose teams were among the top 10 most penalized squads last year include Reid, Saban, Coughlin, Gruden, and Green, all successful coaches. The Raiders will always get a couple of extra flags because they're the Raiders. I'm more concerned with discipline in the form of accountability.

I guarantee you Schott made similar comments. How could he not? And I want it noted for the record, that after all of this I TOO, have not taken a single cheap shot against those same Niners.

This calls for a beer. We'll flip to see who pays..."call it in the air"[/

QUOTE]

For the record, I'm not expecting a 12-4 miracle turnaround, but I don't think 8-8 is out of the question. With all this talk about Tom Walsh, I think the defense is something we haven't talked about. The offense will need help from the D to make the "pound it between the tackles and play action" approach successful.

I'm getting edgy. Let's reconvene on August 21 after Andrew Walter shreds the Niners second stringers for a glorious preseason victory in the next installment of the Battle of the Bay.