Pats in trouble?

[9Bucker]

Does anybody else get the feeling that the patriots defense will be over matched sept. 8th ? Bruschi is gone, Law is gone, Ted johnson called it quits, and Richard Seymore is a no show at camp (contract disputes *tisk tisk*) and so far the only person of relivance they've signed is Chad Brown (who is kinda old and injury prone) Anyways, i'm starting to get a very good feeling about the Raider's offensive chanches against their d. We all know Tom Brady can move the ball down the field, but i like the chances of our offense controlling the game. Can anybody identify with this or share their thoughts?



Moss Patriots

[brekudown]

Absolutely !!
Pats lost 2 of their 3 best Defensive players.
Their WR's are not that great anyways. Woodson can easily handle Branch.
The only challenge the Raiders will have is stopping Corey Dillon.

[r8erray]

I think we have a very good shot at winning.

[R8RFOX]

I think our chances are very good. Rodney Harrison is going to be their defensive leader. He's a gamer but wasn't able to stop us in the past and damn sure won't be able to stop are new attack. They will have their hands full come Sep. 8th

[9Bucker]

yeah i have a feeling it'll be a shoot out of epic proportions, GREAT way to start the season

[r8erray]

We gotta show the NFL what we're about by beating the defending super bowl champs!

[R8erfan]

I'm waiting for the local books to post the new odds on this game. I usually don't bet on the Raiders but this one MIGHT be a "no-brainer". The books love the patsies so take advantage of their stupidity.

[PatriotHater68]

I was reading the Boston Herald about Johnsons retirement. It pretty much said they either have to get Phifer back or switch to the 4-3 which they are not made for. Either way they are missing a huge part of their team last year but wont be easy to beat still. But I think Norv will outcoach Belicheck(he is missing Crenell, Weis). Sept. 8....Raiders 42, Patriots 28

[The Realist]

Originally Posted by PatriotHater68

I was reading the Boston Herald about Johnsons retirement. It pretty much said they either have to get Phifer back or switch to the 4-3 which they are not made for. Either way they are missing a huge part of their team last year but wont be easy to beat still. But I think Norv will outcoach Belicheck(he is missing Crenell, Weis). Sept. 8....Raiders 42, Patriots 28

Curious to think a team that played a 4-3 in the most recent Super Bowl is not built to play a 4-3. They could easily line up Wilfork and Warren as DTs and Green and McGinest as DEs and then Vrabel and Colvin as OLBs with any of a number of ILBs. Their CBs consist of 4 players that have started a Super Bowl (and won)--Poole, Samuel, Gay and Starks.

here is the additions/subtractions break down from another thread:

players lost
- Ty Law (did not play for most of last season)
- Charlie Weis (his playbook/system is still in NE)
- Romeo Crennel (Eric Mangini replaces him--remember Mangini? Al tried to get him last year and this year Saban, Nolan and Crennel tried to get him. He is a Belichick protege--no drop-off expected)
- Tedy Bruschi (no argument--his presence will be missed--but someone will step up in his place)
- Ted Johnson (TJ was no longer a starter--he was a liability in coverage and projected to 2 snaps per series)
- Joe Andruzzi (undrafted lunchpail OL--good guy, but limited talent)
- David Patten (alligator arms--downside of his career--Skins overpaid big-time)

players added
- Duane Starks (former All-Pro and Super Bowl starter)
- Monty Biesel (converted DE to LB like Bruschi--high motor, excellent STeamer)
- Antuan Edwards (probably won't make the 53-man roster)
- Tim Dwight (PUP--may not make the 53-man roster)
- David Terrell (projects as a #3 receiver behind Givens and Branch--reunited with his college QB)
- Logan Mankins (excellent pick--a mauler with unlimited potential)
- Chad Brown (long in the tooth, but if healthy a solid former all-pro)

Chad Morton (former ST demon returner and RB depth)
Chad Scott (more cornerback depth)
r-Ellis Hobbs (more cornerback depth)
r-James Sanders (more safety depth)
r-Ryan Claridge (LB depth)
r-Nick Kazcur (mean OL depth)

returning from IR:
Tyrone Poole (starting caliber CB)
Rodney Bailey (DL depth)
Guss Scott (ST and safety depth)
Ben Watson (blue chip TE prospect)
PK Sam (WR depth)

Additionally, they have extended the following contracts this offseason:

Scott Pioli
Tom Brady
Corey Dillon
Matt Light
Mike Vrabel
Jarvis Green

and they still have major depth at DB, LB and even DL along with extra 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks next year--and if they trade Seymour--add at least 2 more #1s and future cap room.

I give you all credit for your optimism--it will be an interesting game

[Guru]

Not to mention they've lost Crennel and Weis their offnsive and defensive co-ordinators!

Bruschi is the biggest loss fo sho. He is the heart and soul of that D, a vocal leader and someone who would always make that big play when needed most- they'll miss him big time.

The loss of Ty Law is also a big big blow. You really think Randall Gay/Asante Samuel will be able to cover Moss? I don't.

Ted Johnson's retirement hurts their run defense as he could execute his plugging/pursuing role to perfection. They are now left with Chad Brown and K.Mitchell up the middle, that is a huge huge step down at a position that demands you have two excellent ILB's. They may move Vrabel or Colvin inside to compensate but then they are weaker and OLB and won't have the sam pass rush- so either way they're dominant LB's unit now looks a little more average.

Then ofcourse there is Seymour, the best 3-4 DE in the NFL, who's holding out and missing valuable camp time. He will most likely play in the regular season but i'm sure his holdout has had an effect on the team, as one of their leaders is skipping camp.

It's definately our game to win and theirs to lose.

[T_rentsthename]

I think that we should not overestemate their def even missing three starters. Most of these guys have been playing very well together for quite a while. We on the other hand have a unit of guys who havn't seen a lot of great games lately. I think we most definitly have a great chance of winning. The main thing I think we need to watch out for is Collins not forcing the ball and getting any INTs the first half. I think that would mentally send the team spiralling downward.

[The Realist]

Not to mention they've lost Crennel and Weis their offnsive and defensive co-ordinators! Crennel is being replaced by a protege of Belichick--Eric Mangini--if you recall, Oakland tried to sign him before Rob Ryan, and Saban, Crennel and Nolan tried to sign him away this year as well. Weis may be gone, but he had missed time before and BB called plays successfully in his absence. Also, the playbook is staying the same, and the only additions to the O are a couple of WRs and a couple of OLs. The impact of the loss of the coordinators is being greatly exaggerated.

Bruschi is the biggest loss fo sho. He is the heart and soul of that D, a vocal leader and someone who would always make that big play when needed most- they'll miss him big time. Not to minimize the role of Tedy, but he only had about 3 really good seasons in NE. He is a converted DE that only stepped into an increased LB role when Ted Johnson was injured some years back. Tedy will remain with the team, so by leadership and presence, there will not be a complete loss. McGinest and Harrison are just as big in terms of leadership on that team.

The loss of Ty Law is also a big big blow. You really think Randall Gay/Asante Samuel will be able to cover Moss? I don't. Ty Law couldn't cover Moss any better. And let's bear in mind that Kerry Collins still has to get the ball to him. Also--Ty was out most of last season including the playoffs against Plaxico Burress and Hines Ward and Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Brandon Stokely, etc etc etc. The Cover-2 scheme augmented by Mangini last year removes the need for a true shutdown corner (even though we have Duane Starks--arguably a shutdown corner when healthy)

Ted Johnson's retirement hurts their run defense as he could execute his plugging/pursuing role to perfection. They are now left with Chad Brown and K.Mitchell up the middle, that is a huge huge step down at a position that demands you have two excellent ILB's. They may move Vrabel or Colvin inside to compensate but then they are weaker and OLB and won't have the sam pass rush- so either way they're dominant LB's unit now looks a little more average. There is no K. Mitchell on the squad. See below for the LB depth breakdown

Then ofcourse there is Seymour, the best 3-4 DE in the NFL, who's holding out and missing valuable camp time. He will most likely play in the regular season but i'm sure his holdout has had an effect on the team, as one of their leaders is skipping camp. Big Sey is a great player of course, but we won handily with the recently extended Jarvis Green filling in for him. We also have last year's 2nd round pick Marquise Hill waiting in the wings--he played for Saban at LSU, is Seymour's size and has projected to have more upside than Seymour.

It's definately our game to win and theirs to lose. It is going to be interesting--that is for certain

Thanks to Mike Reiss of the Boston Herald for the following:

28 Jul 2005
Johnson's void


With Ted Johnson announcing his retirement on Thursday, let's take a look at the Patriots' middle linebacker corps.

Here are the natural middle linebackers on the roster, with a quick comment on each:

* Chad Brown (6-2, 245) -- 13th year -- has background in the 3-4 (both inside and outside) from his time with the Steelers and will be counted on to become a big part of the team's plans.

* Monty Beisel (6-3, 238 ) -- 5th year -- free agent from the Chiefs is still learning the position and has never played in a 3-4, but will need to step up and become the big run stuffer Johnson was.

* Eric Alexander (6-2, 240) -- 2nd year -- a rookie free agent from LSU in 2004 who played under Nick Saban, he could become a big part of the team's plans after seeing just a small amount of special teams time in 2004.

* Wesly Mallard (6-1, 230) -- 4th year -- free-agent signee from the Giants is fast and speedy and more likely to be a factor on third down than early downs.

* Ryan Claridge (6-2, 259) -- rookie -- it's a tall task to ask a rookie fifth-rounder to step right in, but Claridge played in a 3-4 at UNLV so he has some background there.

* Don Davis (6-1, 235) -- 10th year -- a special teams leader and versatile player, Davis is a savvy veteran.

* Larry Izzo (5-10, 228 ) -- 10th year -- another special teams ace who might see an increased role in specific situations.

* Dan Klecko (5-11, 275) -- 3rd year -- it's unknown if the team is still considering a transition from D-line to linebacker for Klecko, who worked more with the line in June's mini-camp.

Other possibilities are:

* Moving outside linebacker Mike Vrabel (6-4, 261) to the inside, where he played in Super Bowl XXXIX.

* Moving reserve outside linebacker Matt Chatham (6-4, 250) to the inside, where he worked for the first time in June mini-camps.

* Switch to a 4-3 alignment, which takes a linebacker off the field and adds a defensive lineman.

* Sign a free-agent like Roman Phifer, who already knows the defense.

+++

Looking ahead, we'll stay on top of the Johnson story and file an update should we learn anything new. Otherwise, we'll be firing away from the start of training camp early Friday morning.

--Mike

[9Bucker]

Originally Posted by T_rentsthename

I think that we should not overestemate their def even missing three starters. Most of these guys have been playing very well together for quite a while. We on the other hand have a unit of guys who havn't seen a lot of great games lately. I think we most definitly have a great chance of winning. The main thing I think we need to watch out for is Collins not forcing the ball and getting any INTs the first half. I think that would mentally send the team spiralling downward.

Agreed-- I think if Kerry can keep a cool head, and not make any stupid decisions this game is all ours, we have the offense to control the flow of the game; but i guess we'll just have to wait and see fellas..

[Pats_Rule_all]

I am enjoying the raider optimism - but your blinkered viewpoint is laughable.
All this talk of your offence beating up on our D?
At least our D was good last year...arguably the best.

Can anyone explain how your D (ranked last or near to last in every defensive category) is going to stop Tom Brady and Corey Dillon?

Id be interested to hear your views on it - maybe Moss is going to play OLB for you aswell?

PRA

[Dokie85]

If you look closely at the games played last year, our defense was not bad at stopping the run. Teams averaged 3.7 yds/carry, which was 7th in the NFL. The problem was, they were on the field more than any other unit in the NFL - mainly due to the offenses inability to run the football. That has been addressed with the additions of LaMont Jordan and Randy Moss - as opposing defenses will not be able to stack the box. Granted, our defense will have to show it has improved, but here is a quick breakdown:

D-Line - Ted Washington is a premier run stuffer. D. Burgess was added to provide pass rush. B. Hamilton is a solid veteran. W. Sapp appears headed to play DT in the 4-3, where he has excelled in the past (who knows if he still has it though). T. Kelly provided a spark of pass rush ability as a rookie last year. A. Hawthorne was regarded as a premier DT prospect in last years' draft and may see a lot of time as a run stopper.

LB: D. Clark played solid ILB last season. S. Williams has shown flashes of realizing his potential last season but needs to stay healthy. J. Foreman was added and is a solid LB. K. Morrison was drafted and is a gamer and regarded as a top ILB in the draft. T. Brayton has a year under his belt at OLB where he will start.

CB: We boast 3 1st. round draft picks at corner, with Woodson, Asomugha, and F. Washington. We also added Renaldo Hill, who played solid CB starting for the Cardinals.

S: Stu Schweigert needs to improve, but he saw a lot of action as a rookie last season at FS. Marques Anderson and Derrick Gibson will battle for the SS spot. This is definitely the weakest position on the defense.

As you can see, there is reason to believe that the defense will not be a pushover. Add to that how pissed off all of these guys are about last years performance and their determination to prove the pundits wrong, and good things can happen.

They have to show it on the field though.