Afc West Predictions?

[NHRaider]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

Yet based on YOUR own logic of everybody being 0-0, doesnt that mean that the Chargers havent choked in the 2008 season and therefore has a excellent shot at winning the SB????

After all the past is the past? No?

I'm just trying to keep up with you train of thought. I have no problem including the past in the conversation, but you said we shouldn't do that... or that the raiders fans shouldn't do that...

does that mean the chargers fans can? or that we should only count the part of the past where the chargers have been good and not the raiders?

Just tryin to get a grip on your view of how this all should work... One post you say us Raiders fans are always lookin to the past, then in the next post you list the results from all of the chargers PAST 5 seasons... odd

[BlackDawg]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

"The most important game in his life??" Please. That would be the SuperBowl...not the AFCCG.

As always any arguments to counter the Chargers rising tide as a dominant NFL power are just empty rhetoric. We know and acknowledge we don't have any SB wins, Rome was not built in a day, a month or a year and we are firmly on our way to having that elusive Lombardi in our hands.

2004 = surprised everybody - lost in the opening round
2005 = regressed a bit but talent was there
2006 = overconfident and lost in the opening round
2007 = progress made playoff games won to advance lasted until the AFCCG
2008 = no excuses we are a team of destiny!

Short of putting it in a bargraph I can't help you or make you understand, you have your bias and that's all good and well, but inspite of the outwardly raidersitic jingoism about SB's and Playoffs the reality is cold and hard your franchise stink and will continue to stink until proven otherwise, the Chargers haven't won a SB yet and will never be considered an equal at the top until we do. That being said we are waaaaaaaaaaayyyy closer to the top of the mountain than you guys are and when the 2008 season is over I am confident I will have a new avatar to add to my profile.

NH...are you referring to this post???

That would be a stretch on your part to assume that I am using this post to counter your arugments about the past in raiders v Charger history or somehow justify that our history has relevance because it's recent success and your franchises recent demise.

As I mentioned I used the recent Charger history to site a trend towards a culmination. I hope this clarifies it for you!

PS. I would have figured the phrases "the Chargers rising tide as a dominant NFL power" or the "That would be the SB not the AFCCG" would have been a dead give away, but hey sometime we all just read what we wanna read!

[NHRaider]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

NH...are you referring to this post???

That would be a stretch on your part to assume that I am using this post to counter your arugments about the past in raiders v Charger history or somehow justify that our history has relevance because it's recent success and your franchises recent demise.

As I mentioned I used the recent Charger history to site a trend towards a culmination. I hope this clarifies it for you!

Quite clear thanks, but you didn't mention 2003 when you were 4-12 before you made the jump in 2004. I'm sure that was just accidental, because you were in the process of saying that since we have sucked recently we will continue to suck.

A good season in 2004 with different coaches and different players isn't much more relevant to success in the future than a good season in say... 1950.

[BlackDawg]

Originally Posted by NHRaider

Quite clear thanks, but you didn't mention 2003 when you were 4-12 before you made the jump in 2004. I'm sure that was just accidental, because you were in the process of saying that since we have sucked recently we will continue to suck.

A good season in 2004 with different coaches and different players isn't much more relevant to success in the future than a good season in say... 1950.

I cant argue with that logic, nor would have I ever made that hapless comparison either.

If I omited 2003 it was purely accidental, since several of our core superstar players were in their 2nd or 3rd years and or rookies. I can ammend that post if you wish, but that would only further illustrate IMO my post that the Chargers trend is towards a future SB, since if I remember correctly BOTH our franchises were 4-12 that year and both have gone in divergent directions since.

[NHRaider]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

I cant argue with that logic, nor would have I ever made that hapless comparison either.

If I omited 2003 it was purely accidental, since several of our core superstar players were in their 2nd or 3rd years and or rookies. I can ammend that post if you wish, but that would only further illustrate IMO my post that the Chargers trend is towards a future SB, since if I remember correctly BOTH our franchises were 4-12 that year and both have gone in divergent directions since.

I understand that. I'm just saying that you can rub our nose in this past seasons 4-12 record all you want, but as your very own team proved, 4-12 can change drastically in one season.

It also illustrates my point that a team's record one year has VERY little correlation to their success in the next year.

[BlackDawg]

Originally Posted by NHRaider

I understand that. I'm just saying that you can rub our nose in this past seasons 4-12 record all you want, but as your very own team proved, 4-12 can change drastically in one season.

It also illustrates my point that a team's record one year has VERY little correlation to their success in the next year.

NH,

Hey can the raiders be 5-11, 6-10, 7-9 instead of 4-12 of course they can my subsequest post indicated as much, will they be 12-4 or 11-5 or 15-1??? The reality is that YOU GUYS TODAY don't have the talent to compare with the 2004 Chargers team that made that turnaround from the previous seasons 4-12 record. That is reality.

But just as easily the riaders 08 edition can be another 2-14 team waiting to happen, conversely I can admit that the Chargers could go catasthrophically south, but for me south is 10-6, 9-7, and the Chances of that happening are extremely slim the foundation on which the Chargers are built it too strong right now. The raiders foundation is old, weak.

[NHRaider]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

NH,

Hey can the raiders be 5-11, 6-10, 7-9 instead of 4-12 of course they can my subsequest post indicated as much, will they be 12-4 or 11-5 or 15-1??? The reality is that YOU GUYS TODAY don't have the talent to compare with the 2004 Chargers team that made that turnaround from the previous seasons 4-12 record. That is reality.

But just as easily the riaders 08 edition can be another 2-14 team waiting to happen, conversely I can admit that the Chargers could go catasthrophically south, but for me south is 10-6, 9-7, and the Chances of that happening are extremely slim the foundation on which the Chargers are built it too strong right now. The raiders foundation is old, weak.

Is that reality? And what is that reality based on?

We don't have the talent of the 12-4 chargers... wouldn't that be a hard thing to say with any degree of certainty? Do you have a way of knowing how russel will play? how walker will play? how Tommy Kelly will play? do you already know the type of season nnamdi and hall will have? have you seen mcfadden play already? do you know if Harris will pan out? because then and ONLY then would you be able to compare the 08 Raiders to anything. You have yet to see the 08 Raiders, so to say that they are better or worse than anyone is sort of foolish don't you think?

Our critics will be quick to say there are too many ?s on this team. Harris, Walker, Kelly, Russell, McFadden, Carter, Bush, etc... But it is very easy to forget that a question mark player can just as easily be a pleasant surprise as a bust.

Sure, some of those ?s could fail and we could go 2-14, but at the same time they could blow up and we could wind up at 14-2. Nobody not even the all knowing BlackDawg can do anything more than guess at that.


And even though this post is long already, I can't leave this part untouched:

"The raiders foundation is old, weak"

Which part of our foundation is old exactly? Is it kiffin in his second year in the league? Or is it Russel and Mcfadden? Or Morrison Howard and Nnamdi perhaps? I'm not sure I see where this old foundation bit is coming from? Seems to me like we have a pretty solid VERY young core.

[ChargedUp]

Originally Posted by BlackDawg

Its pretty sad when your ONLY counter argument is to always hide behind the skirt of the past, like ALL raider fans you can't handle the here and now or the future.

BTW we will continue to OWN you in the near future as well, and thanks again for admitting we OWN you guys!!!!

Speaking of Raiders fans living in the past....... I heard a great joke on the radio this morning.

"How many Raiders fans does it take to change a lightbulb?"
"5"
"1 to change the bulb and 4 to brag about how great the old one was."

[rayderjoe]

lol I heard a joke too, Norv said you will finally get a S.B. win. Now that is 2 funny.

[ChargedUp]

Originally Posted by rayderjoe

lol I heard a joke too, Norv said you will finally get a S.B. win. Now that is 2 funny.

"rayderjoe is blasting trolls"

Dude, if you are in here for five minutes and can't pick out the troll, you know what that means. Go away troll.

BTW
Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

[SCLA_SICKO_F13]

Originally Posted by ChargedUp

"rayderjoe is blasting trolls"

Dude, if you are in here for five minutes and can't pick out the troll, you know what that means. Go away troll.

BTW
Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

lol! so we're getting skooled now?