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Thread: Itís time to move on from Carr

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Imasmashu View Post
    Carr is a middle of the pack QB unless he proves otherwise. Since he’s playing well this season, we have to now argue about his “potential” to be elite? He’s not elite until he proves it.

    Some fans want to argue that he’ll never be elite because of past performance and the eye test. There’s too many excuses about this guy and the past, too much info we don’t know...look to now and the future. He’s got the gift and the tools, it’s up to him.

    Clearly, Gruden and the Raiders have bet on him to be the guy, giving him the space to show what he can do. He still has to prove it though. I don’t think any of us could properly gauge his potential. Personally, I don’t think any fans on this site or others would hold a candle to Carr in a QB room, or to Gruden for reasons why he kept Carr.

    Most of the media and fans, myself included, would not have bet $ on Carr to take the lead and go up two scores on the defending champs in Arrowhead. Pleasant surprise. Looking forward to more big wins and a playoff berth.

    A little hope based solely on trust in the team’s trajectory is justified at this point. Gruden has built something good here. Let’s see how far they go. The first win in the division helps. No MVP BS, Wins over all stats. The other stuff is icing on the cake.

    Go Raiders!
    Exactly. Stats don't mean a thing unless you win.

    Team victory, defense was big, Heath's pick return got us that 2 score lead. Pass rush was there, run game was stopped.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Imasmashu View Post
    Carr is a middle of the pack QB unless he proves otherwise. Since heís playing well this season, we have to now argue about his ďpotentialĒ to be elite? Heís not elite until he proves it.

    Some fans want to argue that heíll never be elite because of past performance and the eye test. Thereís too many excuses about this guy and the past, too much info we donít know...look to now and the future. Heís got the gift and the tools, itís up to him.

    Clearly, Gruden and the Raiders have bet on him to be the guy, giving him the space to show what he can do. He still has to prove it though. I donít think any of us could properly gauge his potential. Personally, I donít think any fans on this site or others would hold a candle to Carr in a QB room, or to Gruden for reasons why he kept Carr.

    Most of the media and fans, myself included, would not have bet $ on Carr to take the lead and go up two scores on the defending champs in Arrowhead. Pleasant surprise. Looking forward to more big wins and a playoff berth.

    A little hope based solely on trust in the teamís trajectory is justified at this point. Gruden has built something good here. Letís see how far they go. The first win in the division helps. No MVP BS, Wins over all stats. The other stuff is icing on the cake.

    Go Raiders!
    Well said.....

  3. #53
    Just my gut feeling. I’ve heard Gruden praise Carr. I don’t think he’s going anywhere any time soon. I could be totally wrong

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vioraider View Post
    Just my gut feeling. I’ve heard Gruden praise Carr. I don’t think he’s going anywhere any time soon. I could be totally wrong
    He always praises Carr, nothing new.

  5. #55
    Damn, everyone needs to slow down. Can we reconvene after the Bucs game? If Carr plays like this again, then we can start truly talking about Carr turning the corner and being the QB we all hoped he would become... but, the true test is this FULL season... the optimism is great, and I want to believe too. But 1 tremendous win does not equate to us all being right or wrong about our prior feelings about Carr. Not yet.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by R8RFanatic View Post
    The criticism of Carr was mostly that he WASN'T the guy, and suggested that he'd NEVER be the guy. Basically, they were abandoning any support of Carr.

    The fans who recognized his prowess and skill and KNEW that he has all the ability in the world have been more than vindicated by his play this year. It doesn't validate the critics at all. I think you're trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

    Carr is an incredible QB that has had more roadblocks thrown in front of him than perhaps any other QB in the league. He had, what, like 4 different HCs in his first 5 years? That's insane. All with different offensive systems and philosophies. And yet he still improved every year from his rookie season in 2014 to the MVP level season in 2016. When provided with competent WR play (Crab and Coop), he had the team at 12-3, and poised for a DEEP playoff run.

    Then a devastating injury.

    In 2017, they dump the very successful system under OC Musgrave, opting instead for a first year OC, Todd Downing, one of the worst moves in franchise history. We start 2-0, but then the Redskins game when everything went to shit bc Del Rio lost the locker room over the issue. Then they fire Del Rio, and start the fire sale, dumping Crab, and trading Mack and Cooper.

    2018, Gruden year one. A very complex new offensive system, one that Rich Gannon struggled with his first two years before mastering and breaking out in his 3rd year as well.

    2019 we played MUCH better, and you could see Carr begin to get the system, but unfortunately we are hamstrung from the outset when the projected centerpiece of the offense (AB) goes haywire and doesn't even play a down. Still, the team essentially plays .500 ball throughout the season despite a massive rash of injuries to the entire squad, specifically the WR and secondary rooms.

    And now, this. 2020, and Carr is putting up MVP numbers again.

    The criticism has been unfair, point blank. DC has always done the best with what has been around him, and has persevered despite the numerous shortcomings and errors of the franchise. This is why the fanbase has been divided on Carr - half of us get it, and half of us don't. The frustrating part from the pro-Carr side was that we were hopeful that at some point Carr's situation and ability would be more reasonably recognized, and not dismissed as if the lack of wins were entirely on his shoulders. Carr has always been our greatest asset, and now that we have a team around him, the wins are coming.

    We always believed. And we were right.
    "The criticism of Carr was mostly that he WASN'T the guy, and suggested that he'd NEVER be the guy. Basically, they were abandoning any support of Carr." That is true and that's because he was making very bad decisions, like turfing the ball in critical situations, checking down most of the time, not going through his progressions 98% of the time, not throwing deep, not running when there was a clear open field ahead of him, not giving his receivers a chance to make a play, etc...

    "The fans who recognized his prowess and skill and KNEW that he has all the ability in the world have been more than vindicated by his play this year. It doesn't validate the critics at all. I think you're trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth." We all KNEW he had the tools to be an above average QB, I've said it many times before, but he didn't use them to his fullest, there would be a lot left on the field. You're only vindicated by his play this year because he is finally doing what the Carr critics have been saying he needs to be doing for us to win, which is stated in the previous paragraph. How is that talking on both sides of my mouth? It's pretty straight forward...play like how the Carr critics have been saying he needs to play and he will be playing to win. What part of that is talking on both sides of my mouth?

    "Carr is an incredible QB that has had more roadblocks thrown in front of him than perhaps any other QB in the league. He had, what, like 4 different HCs in his first 5 years? That's insane. All with different offensive systems and philosophies. And yet he still improved every year from his rookie season in 2014 to the MVP level season in 2016. When provided with competent WR play (Crab and Coop), he had the team at 12-3, and poised for a DEEP playoff run." That is true, Carr did have to endure a lot of change in terms of Head coaches and systems, any QB would have a difficult time excelling in that type of environment. A big reason he did excel in 2016 is because Carr only lined up in the shotgun formation which gave him more time to survey the field and feel comfortable, its what he knew in college.

    "Then a devastating injury." Something that Carr is still trying to get over.

    "In 2017, they dump the very successful system under OC Musgrave, opting instead for a first year OC, Todd Downing, one of the worst moves in franchise history. We start 2-0, but then the Redskins game when everything went to shit bc Del Rio lost the locker room over the issue. Then they fire Del Rio, and start the fire sale, dumping Crab, and trading Mack and Cooper." Crabtree was disgruntled and was getting into fights on the field. Mack was asking for more than the team could afford while still building the team. Cooper was dropping a lot of balls and would frequently disappear from games, possibly because Carr wouldn't throw deep or into areas where a defender was in the vicinity.

    "2018, Gruden year one. A very complex new offensive system, one that Rich Gannon struggled with his first two years before mastering and breaking out in his 3rd year as well." A system that Gruden is known for a slow methodical pace, but also implored his QB to throw deep, but Carr could not squeeze the trigger.

    "2019 we played MUCH better, and you could see Carr begin to get the system, but unfortunately we are hamstrung from the outset when the projected centerpiece of the offense (AB) goes haywire and doesn't even play a down. Still, the team essentially plays .500 ball throughout the season despite a massive rash of injuries to the entire squad, specifically the WR and secondary rooms." Still does not excuse the bad play by Carr, like turfing the ball and checking down at a shameful frequency. It got so bad, defenses were stacking the box daring Carr to throw deep and he couldn't do it. If you are going to say the receivers couldn't get open...that simply isn't true, Carr just didn't look for them, his goal was to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible.

    And now, this. 2020, and Carr is putting up MVP numbers again. And why is that? Is he still dinking and dunking all the time? Is he not running? Is he refusing to throw deep and give his receivers a chance to make a play? It's not like Gruden revamped his whole playbook, it was always there, only now Carr is not being so one dimensional, now defenses have to think what is Carr going to do now, now defenses have to cover the whole field instead of just the 10 yards in front of them.

    "The criticism has been unfair, point blank. DC has always done the best with what has been around him, and has persevered despite the numerous shortcomings and errors of the franchise. This is why the fanbase has been divided on Carr - half of us get it, and half of us don't. The frustrating part from the pro-Carr side was that we were hopeful that at some point Carr's situation and ability would be more reasonably recognized, and not dismissed as if the lack of wins were entirely on his shoulders. Carr has always been our greatest asset, and now that we have a team around him, the wins are coming." If Carr was still playing small ball like usual, the wins would not come. Carr was not the only reason the Raiders could not win, but Carr sure didn't help matters with his play. He played to pad his stats and hopefully fool the fans that only look at stats and not how he acquired these stats. The biggest knock on Carr is he doesn't play to win, he plays not to get hurt and to not take any chances. And with a bad defense, you can't play it safe and hope to win, you have to take chances. The pro-Carr fans were hoping Carr would win with his small ball mentality, I don't know how you can expect wins with that kind of play. For a team to win like that you have to dominate in every phase of the game and at almost every position, we are not that team. I don't know if there is a team like that out there in the NFL. Carr has not been our greatest asset, not with the way he was playing, but now with his play of late, he is on the right track.

    "We always believed. And we were right." With all due respect, I think it is you that is talking on both sides of your mouth. On one hand you are saying you were always right because Carr is playing better now, but on the other hand you aren't right because its not the Carr you were supporting, Carr is playing a different style of play now, the style of play the Carr critics were trying to get him to play.

  7. #57
    Carrs level of play thru 5 games has pretty much solidified his status as our starter,we get to 9-7 or 10-6 (playoffs) and carr is staying for the remainder of his contract

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DARAIDAHS View Post
    He always praises Carr, nothing new.
    Ok. Got it. Good.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by DARAIDAHS View Post
    "The criticism of Carr was mostly that he WASN'T the guy, and suggested that he'd NEVER be the guy. Basically, they were abandoning any support of Carr." That is true and that's because he was making very bad decisions, like turfing the ball in critical situations, checking down most of the time, not going through his progressions 98% of the time, not throwing deep, not running when there was a clear open field ahead of him, not giving his receivers a chance to make a play, etc...

    "The fans who recognized his prowess and skill and KNEW that he has all the ability in the world have been more than vindicated by his play this year. It doesn't validate the critics at all. I think you're trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth." We all KNEW he had the tools to be an above average QB, I've said it many times before, but he didn't use them to his fullest, there would be a lot left on the field. You're only vindicated by his play this year because he is finally doing what the Carr critics have been saying he needs to be doing for us to win, which is stated in the previous paragraph. How is that talking on both sides of my mouth? It's pretty straight forward...play like how the Carr critics have been saying he needs to play and he will be playing to win. What part of that is talking on both sides of my mouth?

    "Carr is an incredible QB that has had more roadblocks thrown in front of him than perhaps any other QB in the league. He had, what, like 4 different HCs in his first 5 years? That's insane. All with different offensive systems and philosophies. And yet he still improved every year from his rookie season in 2014 to the MVP level season in 2016. When provided with competent WR play (Crab and Coop), he had the team at 12-3, and poised for a DEEP playoff run." That is true, Carr did have to endure a lot of change in terms of Head coaches and systems, any QB would have a difficult time excelling in that type of environment. A big reason he did excel in 2016 is because Carr only lined up in the shotgun formation which gave him more time to survey the field and feel comfortable, its what he knew in college.

    "Then a devastating injury." Something that Carr is still trying to get over.

    "In 2017, they dump the very successful system under OC Musgrave, opting instead for a first year OC, Todd Downing, one of the worst moves in franchise history. We start 2-0, but then the Redskins game when everything went to shit bc Del Rio lost the locker room over the issue. Then they fire Del Rio, and start the fire sale, dumping Crab, and trading Mack and Cooper." Crabtree was disgruntled and was getting into fights on the field. Mack was asking for more than the team could afford while still building the team. Cooper was dropping a lot of balls and would frequently disappear from games, possibly because Carr wouldn't throw deep or into areas where a defender was in the vicinity.

    "2018, Gruden year one. A very complex new offensive system, one that Rich Gannon struggled with his first two years before mastering and breaking out in his 3rd year as well." A system that Gruden is known for a slow methodical pace, but also implored his QB to throw deep, but Carr could not squeeze the trigger.

    "2019 we played MUCH better, and you could see Carr begin to get the system, but unfortunately we are hamstrung from the outset when the projected centerpiece of the offense (AB) goes haywire and doesn't even play a down. Still, the team essentially plays .500 ball throughout the season despite a massive rash of injuries to the entire squad, specifically the WR and secondary rooms." Still does not excuse the bad play by Carr, like turfing the ball and checking down at a shameful frequency. It got so bad, defenses were stacking the box daring Carr to throw deep and he couldn't do it. If you are going to say the receivers couldn't get open...that simply isn't true, Carr just didn't look for them, his goal was to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible.

    And now, this. 2020, and Carr is putting up MVP numbers again. And why is that? Is he still dinking and dunking all the time? Is he not running? Is he refusing to throw deep and give his receivers a chance to make a play? It's not like Gruden revamped his whole playbook, it was always there, only now Carr is not being so one dimensional, now defenses have to think what is Carr going to do now, now defenses have to cover the whole field instead of just the 10 yards in front of them.

    "The criticism has been unfair, point blank. DC has always done the best with what has been around him, and has persevered despite the numerous shortcomings and errors of the franchise. This is why the fanbase has been divided on Carr - half of us get it, and half of us don't. The frustrating part from the pro-Carr side was that we were hopeful that at some point Carr's situation and ability would be more reasonably recognized, and not dismissed as if the lack of wins were entirely on his shoulders. Carr has always been our greatest asset, and now that we have a team around him, the wins are coming." If Carr was still playing small ball like usual, the wins would not come. Carr was not the only reason the Raiders could not win, but Carr sure didn't help matters with his play. He played to pad his stats and hopefully fool the fans that only look at stats and not how he acquired these stats. The biggest knock on Carr is he doesn't play to win, he plays not to get hurt and to not take any chances. And with a bad defense, you can't play it safe and hope to win, you have to take chances. The pro-Carr fans were hoping Carr would win with his small ball mentality, I don't know how you can expect wins with that kind of play. For a team to win like that you have to dominate in every phase of the game and at almost every position, we are not that team. I don't know if there is a team like that out there in the NFL. Carr has not been our greatest asset, not with the way he was playing, but now with his play of late, he is on the right track.

    "We always believed. And we were right." With all due respect, I think it is you that is talking on both sides of your mouth. On one hand you are saying you were always right because Carr is playing better now, but on the other hand you aren't right because its not the Carr you were supporting, Carr is playing a different style of play now, the style of play the Carr critics were trying to get him to play.
    It’s because he has players who can catch now. We had either the worst, or second to, ranked receiver group last season—they literally had balls bouncing off their face masks. At one point our #1 was a guy off a practice squad, and our #2 was a guy with no NFL catches. It’s still early, but I think it’s telling that with Ruggs we are 3-0 and 0-2 without him.

  10. #60
    It’s not a coincidence that Carr lights it up when Gruden deploys more shotgun sets .. every big play against the Chiefs came out of the shotgun .. every single one of them

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