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Thread: The Pendulum Is Swinging.

  1. #1

    The Pendulum Is Swinging.

    A little more than a year ago our favorite team had Mack and Cooper.

    Expectations for the Raiders weren't great with them, nor were they horrible.

    Raiders were pegged to win 8 games by Vegas. A nominal improvement from the previous 6 win season mostly based on the return of Gruden, a better year from Carr, and other factors.

    Then came the Mack trade. The Cooper trade. 13 sacks on defense. Turnstiles at OT.

    4 and freaking 12 !

    Turned out to be a lost season.

    In reality, a 'tear down' season.

    Now, I honestly believe the pendulum starts to swing in our favor.

    My personal opinion is that the pendulum swing isn't complete until we move on from DC and secure a true franchise QB, but that's neither here nor there.

    The point is we've endured the pain of the 'tear down' and now we start to reap the benefits.

    How many of you people think the Raiders would be better off today had we retained Mack and Cooper ?

    Are we not in a better, stronger position today with the acquistions and upcoming draft picks that moving on from Mack and Cooper enabled and brought us ?

    Of course, that doesn't mean that we're going to turn this thing around immediately this season or that we're out of the deep shit just yet.

    But I'm confident better times are ahead and they're coming sooner than most expect.

    Here's hoping we nail the draft.

    RAIDER ON !

  2. #2
    Senior Member rawhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAIDERMAN818 View Post

    My personal opinion is that the pendulum swing isn't complete until we move on from DC and secure a true franchise QB, but that's neither here nor there.
    I would agree yet it's my opinion you build the team first, then plug in a QB when you're ready. So when the Raiders have a top 8 or so defense, only then do you start looking for a QB. In the mean time, use any scrub QB you can who doesn't throw too many INT's.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhead View Post
    I would agree yet it's my opinion you build the team first, then plug in a QB when you're ready. So when the Raiders have a top 8 or so defense, only then do you start looking for a QB. In the mean time, use any scrub QB you can who doesn't throw too many INT's.
    I can understand that approach, but I think it's preferable to secure a franchise QB as early or whenever possible.

    Sure, if you don't think there's a top notch QB to be had, then of course you concentrate on building up the defense and all other areas.

    But I think it's a mistake to want to settle for a scrub QB until you feel it's time to plug in the franchise guy.

    Not like they grow on trees and you can just plug one in as necessary.

    I prefer having the QB position settled and building the rest of the team around that certainty.

  4. #4
    I really don't like how the term "franchise" QB gets thrown around. You make it sound like any QB that is draft will be a franchise QB with a 0 % bust rate. Look at just a couple year ago the top 2 QB that were taken. Winston and Marriota. Both were "franchise" QB's and are decent QB's. Both the Titans and Bucs most likely are moving on from both of them. So if the Raiders run off Carr and no QB in this draft is better then Carr in 4 years. Where is this franchise? Worse off then if they had stuck with Carr. Just last year Rosen was looked at as a "franchise" QB and it's possible that the Cardinals cut bait and move on from him this year. Even Sam Darnold people keep saying that he's a future great QB. I don't see it and laugh. His rookie season he was 17-15 Tds-int. What screams franchise about that? Carrs rookie season with less talent he was 21-12. I wouldn't trade Carr for Darnold...ever. IS Darnold ever going to win in this league? Nope. He never really won at USC in an extremely weak conference. Keep him.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by psly2124 View Post
    I really don't like how the term "franchise" QB gets thrown around. You make it sound like any QB that is draft will be a franchise QB with a 0 % bust rate. Look at just a couple year ago the top 2 QB that were taken. Winston and Marriota. Both were "franchise" QB's and are decent QB's. Both the Titans and Bucs most likely are moving on from both of them. So if the Raiders run off Carr and no QB in this draft is better then Carr in 4 years. Where is this franchise? Worse off then if they had stuck with Carr. Just last year Rosen was looked at as a "franchise" QB and it's possible that the Cardinals cut bait and move on from him this year. Even Sam Darnold people keep saying that he's a future great QB. I don't see it and laugh. His rookie season he was 17-15 Tds-int. What screams franchise about that? Carrs rookie season with less talent he was 21-12. I wouldn't trade Carr for Darnold...ever. IS Darnold ever going to win in this league? Nope. He never really won at USC in an extremely weak conference. Keep him.
    i agree with this "the new shiny toy analysis" is ridicules add in that this class of qbs is so weak its laughable,remember winston and mariota were guys whom wowed on the field in college and were much better prospects in every way,yet their both bust's currently

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mstrbass2000 View Post
    i agree with this "the new shiny toy analysis" is ridicules add in that this class of qbs is so weak its laughable,remember winston and mariota were guys whom wowed on the field in college and were much better prospects in every way,yet their both bust's currently
    Like the shiny new toy, it's so true. Everyone always thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Can Carr be better, yes. He needs some talent around him. We got some this year. If he flops and looks awful, we can draft a QB next year. If Carr plays great, he's our QB and we are picking in the 20's and being on the close to the playoffs for a long time. If he stinks we should be picking in the top 10 again next year. Then we can draft a QB. We will have the ammo of moving up if we need to, to secure a QB. If it's Fromm, Tua, Hebert or whatever QB decides to step up. Why does everyone think that Gruden likes rookie QB's? Rookies make a lot of mistakes and Gruden is hard on QB's, he can mentally break a young kid and ruin him.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by psly2124 View Post
    I really don't like how the term "franchise" QB gets thrown around. You make it sound like any QB that is draft will be a franchise QB with a 0 % bust rate. Look at just a couple year ago the top 2 QB that were taken. Winston and Marriota. Both were "franchise" QB's and are decent QB's. Both the Titans and Bucs most likely are moving on from both of them. So if the Raiders run off Carr and no QB in this draft is better then Carr in 4 years. Where is this franchise? Worse off then if they had stuck with Carr. Just last year Rosen was looked at as a "franchise" QB and it's possible that the Cardinals cut bait and move on from him this year. Even Sam Darnold people keep saying that he's a future great QB. I don't see it and laugh. His rookie season he was 17-15 Tds-int. What screams franchise about that? Carrs rookie season with less talent he was 21-12. I wouldn't trade Carr for Darnold...ever. IS Darnold ever going to win in this league? Nope. He never really won at USC in an extremely weak conference. Keep him.
    I agree Darnold will ultimately prove to be mediocre or a bust considering where he was drafted. Think his arm talent is mediocre and he's always going to be a turnover machine.

    I also agree that Winston probably will never be a true 'franchise' QB, and since he went first overall, could rightfully be called a bust. Eat some finger 'W's turnover prone, uber groping, clown.

    Marriota, brings intangibles but doesn't have top notch arm talent (misses easy throws), excellent athlete but durability issues.

    Carr, very good arm talent, but folds like an accordion at the hint of a pass rush. Can only make it happen if he gets consistently superb protection, as he panics when a play goes off schedule.

    I don't think any of the above guys are elite or true franchise QBs.

    Still, the name of the game and most important thing to have in the NFL is an elite QB.

    That it's hard to find one doesn't mean you stop trying and settle for less.

    If you think a guy you have an opportunity to draft can be an elite QB and the guy that you currently have isn't or won't become an elite QB, then you roll the dice and take a shot.

    I'm at the stage where I'm convinced Carr isn't that guy.

    And if the Raiders think there's a guy available that can be the franchise guy, I have ZERO problems with them moving to get him.

    And even if it turns out that the guy they draft isn't elite, I don't blame them for trying.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RAIDERMAN818 View Post
    I agree Darnold will ultimately prove to be mediocre or a bust considering where he was drafted. Think his arm talent is mediocre and he's always going to be a turnover machine.

    I also agree that Winston probably will never be a true 'franchise' QB, and since he went first overall, could rightfully be called a bust. Eat some finger 'W's turnover prone, uber groping, clown.

    Marriota, brings intangibles but doesn't have top notch arm talent (misses easy throws), excellent athlete but durability issues.

    Carr, very good arm talent, but folds like an accordion at the hint of a pass rush. Can only make it happen if he gets consistently superb protection, as he panics when a play goes off schedule.

    I don't think any of the above guys are elite or true franchise QBs.

    Still, the name of the game and most important thing to have in the NFL is an elite QB.

    That it's hard to find one doesn't mean you stop trying and settle for less.

    If you think a guy you have an opportunity to draft can be an elite QB and the guy that you currently have isn't or won't become an elite QB, then you roll the dice and take a shot.

    I'm at the stage where I'm convinced Carr isn't that guy.

    And if the Raiders think there's a guy available that can be the franchise guy, I have ZERO problems with them moving to get him.

    And even if it turns out that the guy they draft isn't elite, I don't blame them for trying.
    what if you trade carr to the patriots or the saints and he with the best o-cord's or goat type hc thrives ala jared goff and then our pick this yr turns into marriota or winston or worse ...FU.CK

    ps that scenario is real too,cause carr in the right system with the right talent around him has mvp upside

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhead View Post
    I would agree yet it's my opinion you build the team first, then plug in a QB when you're ready. So when the Raiders have a top 8 or so defense, only then do you start looking for a QB. In the mean time, use any scrub QB you can who doesn't throw too many INT's.
    Most teams, go the other route, getting the QB in place first, then building around it. Agree with this aspect of team building, you are furnished with 7 draft picks a year and you generally don't use them all on QB's, so spend a pick on a QB, you still have 6 selections to build the defense, again you have a 190 million salary cap, you don't expect to spend all 190 million on a QB. Reggie for years crapped on himself via the draft, oh Ward, needs experience is probably 2-3 years away, but once he gets to Year 3, watch out....same with Menelik, Shilique, oh Obi is a tremondous athlete, he can guard the slot and the box safety. We're drafting guys who are 2-3 years away from impacting.....now we find out.....if at all, it's a huge risk when you really have no pieces in the cupboard. What's wrong with drafting kids that are ready to play Day 1, ready to start Day 1, they're on a cost controlled 4 year deal, they put in a solid college career....that's where Reggie crapped on himself......then kick out the fact that he expended what a couple picks and about 20 million on the QB position before finding Carr....then again was that Gruden talking to Mark Davis? Look at Seattle's blueprint, prior to drafting Russell Wilson, even then they went after Matt Flynn, but they had put together a solid defense, in 2 years time mainly via the draft.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RAIDERMAN818 View Post
    I agree Darnold will ultimately prove to be mediocre or a bust considering where he was drafted. Think his arm talent is mediocre and he's always going to be a turnover machine.

    I also agree that Winston probably will never be a true 'franchise' QB, and since he went first overall, could rightfully be called a bust. Eat some finger 'W's turnover prone, uber groping, clown.

    Marriota, brings intangibles but doesn't have top notch arm talent (misses easy throws), excellent athlete but durability issues.

    Carr, very good arm talent, but folds like an accordion at the hint of a pass rush. Can only make it happen if he gets consistently superb protection, as he panics when a play goes off schedule.

    I don't think any of the above guys are elite or true franchise QBs.

    Still, the name of the game and most important thing to have in the NFL is an elite QB.

    That it's hard to find one doesn't mean you stop trying and settle for less.

    If you think a guy you have an opportunity to draft can be an elite QB and the guy that you currently have isn't or won't become an elite QB, then you roll the dice and take a shot.

    I'm at the stage where I'm convinced Carr isn't that guy.

    And if the Raiders think there's a guy available that can be the franchise guy, I have ZERO problems with them moving to get him.

    And even if it turns out that the guy they draft isn't elite, I don't blame them for trying.
    Outside of Tom Brady the last 8 years Super Bowl wins. Joe Flacco, Eli, Foles, Peyton(washed up), Brady(3) and Russell Wilson. And Seattle's D won that Super Bowl. Do you need an elite QB anymore? Who's really elite. Brees and Rodgers. 2 Super Bowls wins between them in 32 combined seasons. How is that "elite"? A lot of luck is involved and not so much the QB play
    Last edited by psly2124; 04-23-2019 at 08:16 AM.

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