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Thread: Giants want Carr. What do you do?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by NASSIMTHEDREAM View Post
    Haskins is not duel threat ... he’s a stiff who has 1 year experience, has 10 seconds to throw the ball at Ohio St ... won’t be like that in the pro’s

    He’s a big gamble for any team who takes him imo

    Grier is my favorite QB in this draft ... if we trade Carr, I want Greir
    no thanks to either haskins or grier

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CMB223 View Post
    Funny you say that because I’ve seen Carr stand in the pocket and make several throws. There may have been some times where it may seem like he “folds” but let’s see how Foles would do with two rookie tackles, no weapons, and gets sacked 51 times. Foles is a product of that system. I don’t think he’d have that same success with this roster.
    these guys dont see straight,look at foles oline giving a clean pocket and 4 sec to throw,all game long it was that way,peters stumped mack one on one all game long and lane johnson,kelce,wiz and brooks held their own pretty much stumping the rest of the bears feared dline,give carr peters and lane with kelce at center and he would also do wonders,you guys do realize carr was sacked 51 times,right

  3. #63

    The truth is any player is available on any team -- for the right price

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitzrrr View Post
    Rumors have it that the Giants will be aggressive in Carr talks this offseason.

    https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/co...the-offseason/

    If this was the 2020 QB class, wed listen. But this 2019 class is ugly. Its why NYG might get desperate.

    Even if Giants offer 2019 & 2020 1sts its a no for me.
    Who would be our future QB? That 2020 pick would suck since the Giants would be big time contenders.

    BUT what if the Giants offer a Godfather offer?
    2019 1st and 2nd
    2020 1st and 2nd

    Imagine the load of talent coming in these next 2 years.
    QB class of 2020 wed have 3 1sts, 1 2nd, and 2 3rds. Thats enough draft capitol to go get who we want from that class. Wed also have him on a rookie deal for the next 5 years. Meaning spending big to make a run around him.

    Its all speculation and rumors and of course I doubt it happens, but its fun to speculate since its the Raider offseason.
    What would our class look like in 2019 with 4 1sts and 2 2nds?
    What would YOU do with those picks?
    It comes down to this. Would the Raiders be a better team long-term with Derek Carr, or a better team with the potential haul and cap space trading Carr would bring?

    With Carr, we will have about $80 million in cap space to sign free agents, including our own. Without Carr, we would have over $100 million in cap space, plus draft picks to build a team.

    If the Giant offered their top pick pick this year, PLUS a solid, starting player and their top pick next year, I would have to listen. I'm not saying I would make this deal, but I would have to consider if my Raiders team would be better with a young Drew Lock or Dwayne Haskins to mold PLUS a starter and two first rounders, or better with Carr at the helm.

    The Raiders traded Ken Stabler at the end of his career, because they thought he was nearing the end and they could get something out of him from another team, which they did. The Raiders traded Jon Gruden, and the Raiders even traded Dave Casper and Phil Villapiano. The best teams realize that you buy low and sell high, which means that players can be traded.

    We learned that this year with Kahlil Mack. It wasn't that the Raiders didn't think that Mack was great; it was that they didn't think they could field a competitive team by paying Carr AND Mack -- and that as good as Mack was, he wasn't worth the exorbitant contract he was demanding.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by raiderman41 View Post
    It comes down to this. Would the Raiders be a better team long-term with Derek Carr, or a better team with the potential haul and cap space trading Carr would bring?

    With Carr, we will have about $80 million in cap space to sign free agents, including our own. Without Carr, we would have over $100 million in cap space, plus draft picks to build a team.

    If the Giant offered their top pick pick this year, PLUS a solid, starting player and their top pick next year, I would have to listen. I'm not saying I would make this deal, but I would have to consider if my Raiders team would be better with a young Drew Lock or Dwayne Haskins to mold PLUS a starter and two first rounders, or better with Carr at the helm.

    The Raiders traded Ken Stabler at the end of his career, because they thought he was nearing the end and they could get something out of him from another team, which they did. The Raiders traded Jon Gruden, and the Raiders even traded Dave Casper and Phil Villapiano. The best teams realize that you buy low and sell high, which means that players can be traded.

    We learned that this year with Kahlil Mack. It wasn't that the Raiders didn't think that Mack was great; it was that they didn't think they could field a competitive team by paying Carr AND Mack -- and that as good as Mack was, he wasn't worth the exorbitant contract he was demanding.
    The question is - is Derek Carr an elite quarterback or can he become one still? He's going to be 28 next year. At what age do you close the book and say - this qb is who he is?

    He looked like an elite qb a couple years ago. Last 2 seasons, he hasn't played like an elite qb. If you have confidence that there's an elite qb in there and Gruden can bring it out of him, then keep him.

    If not, trade him. That's how I look at it.

    If you look at all the greatest quarterbacks in the league, have any of them became elite after age 28?

  5. #65

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidermackin View Post
    The question is - is Derek Carr an elite quarterback or can he become one still? He's going to be 28 next year. At what age do you close the book and say - this qb is who he is?

    He looked like an elite qb a couple years ago. Last 2 seasons, he hasn't played like an elite qb. If you have confidence that there's an elite qb in there and Gruden can bring it out of him, then keep him.

    If not, trade him. That's how I look at it.

    If you look at all the greatest quarterbacks in the league, have any of them became elite after age 28?
    I remember years ago Carson Palmer at USC. A great elite talent but he was never able to put it together at USC.
    He mentioned every single year he had a different play caller, fans don’t realize how hard this is year by year.
    Then his senior year happened and his play caller came back and he was in the same offense. His talent finally showed, was comfortable in the O, and won the Heisman m. USC down the stretch probably has the best team in the nation.

    This feels like what Carr has gone through in his career.
    Do we even know how good he can be? It’s a different play caller every year. His growth, year after year, was handicapped. His ceiling? MVP! He was amongst the favorites before he was injured late 2016.

    With the worst OLine in the league and one of the worst WR core, he passed for over 4K for the 1st time in his career. He said he’s learned more this year then in his entire career.

    Like Carson Palmer said before him, Carr mentioned last month, people don’t realize how hard it is changing play callers every year. (Then he named off all these QBs who have had consistency in play callers).

    With Gruden and Carr coming back, tighten up that Oline, & get some damn WRs to throw to, Carr will have a big bounce back 2019. The press will be shocked, but it won’t be that hard to figure out why

  7. #67
    Senior Member rawhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiderjohn622 View Post
    Looks like Mayock's giving Carr 2019

    https://www.silverandblackpride.com/...se-quarterback
    Which he should. Make it or break it year for Carr --- and Gollum - err...Gruden. 6-10 aint gonna work.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiderjohn622 View Post
    Looks like Mayock's giving Carr 2019

    https://www.silverandblackpride.com/...se-quarterback
    I think that's the right direction. No way do you walk away from Carr circa 2016 so you have to see if he can repeat with the same OC/scheme two years in a row.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitzrrr View Post
    I remember years ago Carson Palmer at USC. A great elite talent but he was never able to put it together at USC.
    He mentioned every single year he had a different play caller, fans don’t realize how hard this is year by year.
    Then his senior year happened and his play caller came back and he was in the same offense. His talent finally showed, was comfortable in the O, and won the Heisman m. USC down the stretch probably has the best team in the nation.

    This feels like what Carr has gone through in his career.
    Do we even know how good he can be? It’s a different play caller every year. His growth, year after year, was handicapped. His ceiling? MVP! He was amongst the favorites before he was injured late 2016.

    With the worst OLine in the league and one of the worst WR core, he passed for over 4K for the 1st time in his career. He said he’s learned more this year then in his entire career.

    Like Carson Palmer said before him, Carr mentioned last month, people don’t realize how hard it is changing play callers every year. (Then he named off all these QBs who have had consistency in play callers).

    With Gruden and Carr coming back, tighten up that Oline, & get some damn WRs to throw to, Carr will have a big bounce back 2019. The press will be shocked, but it won’t be that hard to figure out why
    That could all be true, but that's the question we have to ask ourselves. At some point, he has to become an elite qb, especially if we're passing up such high trade assets.

    The question is not, if he could become elite, the question is, will he become an elite quarterback? It's pretty simple. If we think he will, we keep him. If we don't think he will, then we trade him for some major assets and put our hopes on another qb.

    The bottom line, it's hard as heck to win in this league without elite qb play. We're going to be competing against Patrick Mahomes for the next 15+ years.

    In the last 17 years, we've had a winning record in only 2 of them. In both of those years, we had elite qb play (MVP type seasons).

    2002 - MVP year from Rich Gannon
    2016 - MVP type year from Derek Carr

    The Chiefs recognized this. They had Alex Smith, a good quarterback but not elite. They had good records every year but could never get over the hump. They went out and got Patrick Mahomes. Now it looks like they have an elite quarterback for the next 15 years.

    The only times that Denver's ever been able to do anything was with John Elway or Peyton Manning. All the other years with all their other quarterbacks were wasted years.
    Last edited by Raidermackin; 01-07-2019 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiderjohn622 View Post
    Looks like Mayock's giving Carr 2019

    https://www.silverandblackpride.com/...se-quarterback
    One more year is a big risk if the Giants are offering a ton of assets to trade for him

    If he performs like an elite qb, we win

    If he doesn't, then he loses alot of trade value.

    So, we're taking a big risk (should there be a huge trade offer on the table).

    My prediction - somewhere in between. He'll be better than this year, but somewhere short of an elite quarterback.

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