Raiders Newsflash reports that Jack Del Rio has talked to the team about the DC posit

[imthedan]

That's my point. Why dump him JUST to run a 34 when we currently have no one to replace the impact Shaughnessy has in a 43?



And you deflect the question in all of them. All the 34 teams in the league have the players for it. Your saying we should switch to a 34 just to do it when we currently don't have the players for it. In a 34 Shaugnessy isn't the only expendable commodity. As you say, it's not rocket science right? How does switching to a 34 defense make OUR defense better? Are you saying Goethel is better than Shaugnessy? What proof do you have Houston will be effective in it? How will our defense improve if we're dumping Shaugnessy and Kelly?

I'm waiting.

Everyone understands that Shaugnessy is expendable in a 34. In fact I believe I (along with Wiz) was the one who made you aware of it. What we don't know is why you're suggesting to dump him just to run a package that other teams are effective with (which is your actual argument). You claim everyone else is unintelligent but your argument isn't anything someone would deem "smart" thinking. Switching JUST CAUSE? Your actually saying that even though we get rid of our most effective players, our defense will get better because we're running a 34. Sorry, I don't agree with that assessment.

By the way, your defense needs to produce "constant" pressure in any scheme to be effective.

Your solution is to suffer through a 43 defense because we do not have the players for a 34 defense (in your opinion)? There will be an adjustment period, but I can almost guarantee it will not be worse than this past seasons defense.

Switching to a 34 defense will make our defense better in the long run. Will it be a top five defense next season? Probably not... but will it be better than what we had last season? Yes, I think so. Also, You keep making this comparison of Shaughnessy to Goethel. It's an apples and oranges comparison because Shaughnessy is our star DE, while Goethel is a backup MLB. The point is the switch to a 34 helps many more people in the defensive scheme than the 43 scheme. The fact is McClain, Curry and possibly Wimbley all play better in a 34 scheme. I don't subscribe to the belief that Wimbley wouldn't be good in a 34 scheme because in his rookie season, in a 34 scheme, he put up the most sacks in his career. He obviously can play in a 34 scheme. I think it's unanimous that Curry and McClain both do much better in a 34 scheme, so I won't bother with a counter point for that. Yes, we'll nee another ILB or OLB (depending on where Curry plays), but we can find one somewhere.. if not, Goethel will be serviceable for a season until we can find a better one in the draft next season.

Houston did alright in the 43. He didn't have the best stats, but he did very well. His pressures were good and was a better than expected run stopper for us. That said, I think many believe he's built more for a 34 end or a 34 NT. Seymour could play one more season at his natural position (34 end [if we decide to keep him]).

Look, here's the facts of the situation. In the 43, we don't get as much pressure. Seymour isn't getting younger and the same can be said for Kelly. Shaughnessy, when out there, is getting better, but nowhere near that Jared Allen level of end. Houston, on the other end, isn't as effective as he should be. The main problem in the 43 is our LB core. They aren't 43 LBs... McClain doesn't have the athletic ability to be a MLB. Wimbley isn't the best SLB. Curry, while he was effective at times, would be better in a 34 scheme (my opinion).

You keep saying we do not have the personnel for a 34 scheme. The honest truth is we don't really have the personnel for either scheme. I honestly think we're closer to a 34 scheme than people think. The NT is always brought up as something that is needed. Yes, it's needed, but as I posted before, nobody even really knows who these guys are and they can be picked up. They're becoming even more common than years back when the 43 scheme was still dominant and there wasn't a need for NTs. There are a couple that are going to be FAs this off season that we can pursue.

By the way, your defense needs to produce "constant" pressure in any scheme to be effective.

Obviously, but there's a different between where the pressure must come from. In a 43 scheme, there has to be constant pressure from the DL or we'll get burned (like we did for the majority of the season).

Honestly, this topic is getting tiring. Everyone knows where everyone stands. It's not our decision; rather, it's Reggie's now to decide what is best for the team. We'll know fairly soon which way he's going by the DC he picks. If he picks a notorious 43 DC (like Del Rio) then we'll know we're sticking with the 43. That's fine with me... two seasons back, we were at least a respectable defense. We have the talent for the 43 to work, but I just think the game today needs the 34 defense. If we hire a DC that is notorious for the 34, then chances are we'll make the switch.

I'll just leave it on this. Two seasons ago, with pretty much the same players, we were second in the league in sacks but middle of the pack in PPGA. This past season we were almost last in the league PPGA, but were decent in sacks. I don't think it gets much worse in a 34 scheme. I'd rather give it a try and make a switch trying to make things better than sit in mediocrity for another season.

[mranquales]

Your solution is to suffer through a 43 defense because we do not have the players for a 34 defense (in your opinion)? There will be an adjustment period, but I can almost guarantee it will not be worse than this past seasons defense.

Switching to a 34 defense will make our defense better in the long run. Will it be a top five defense next season? Probably not... but will it be better than what we had last season? Yes, I think so.

Doesn't take much to be better than this past season either way.

Also, You keep making this comparison of Shaughnessy to Goethel. It's an apples and oranges comparison because Shaughnessy is our star DE, while Goethel is a backup MLB. The point is the switch to a 34 helps many more people in the defensive scheme than the 43 scheme. The fact is McClain, Curry and possibly Wimbley all play better in a 34 scheme. I don't subscribe to the belief that Wimbley wouldn't be good in a 34 scheme because in his rookie season, in a 34 scheme, he put up the most sacks in his career. He obviously can play in a 34 scheme. I think it's unanimous that Curry and McClain both do much better in a 34 scheme, so I won't bother with a counter point for that.

To be sure, we'll see if McClain is better in a 34 or the scheme simply masked his flaws in college better.

Yes, we'll nee another ILB or OLB (depending on where Curry plays), but we can find one somewhere.. if not, Goethel will be serviceable for a season until we can find a better one in the draft next season. .

So it's as I said, we're dumping Shaughnessy for Goethel to start off. Don't see how that makes our front seven better.

Houston did alright in the 43. He didn't have the best stats, but he did very well. His pressures were good and was a better than expected run stopper for us. That said, I think many believe he's built more for a 34 end or a 34 NT. Seymour could play one more season at his natural position (34 end [if we decide to keep him]).

Seymour is over the hill. He'd need to be better playing 34 end which would be expecting too much. It's less demand to play inside 43 and Seymour couldn't do that, he's too old to be effective in a 34 at this point. We also get rid of Kelly, which as your aware, CAN NOT play 34 for beans. So we deal 2 solid players and one veteran contributor for the hope that our LB (who are extremely inconsistent) will step up and fill the gap enough to make us a better defense. I don't see it without major changes and upgrades.

Look, here's the facts of the situation. In the 43, we don't get as much pressure. Seymour isn't getting younger and the same can be said for Kelly. Shaughnessy, when out there, is getting better, but nowhere near that Jared Allen level of end. Houston, on the other end, isn't as effective as he should be. The main problem in the 43 is our LB core. They aren't 43 LBs... McClain doesn't have the athletic ability to be a MLB. Wimbley isn't the best SLB. Curry, while he was effective at times, would be better in a 34 scheme (my opinion).

So we're exchanging the best part of our team for (until the secondary caught up) the worst part of our team but...We're better off because it's a 34? Our worst defensive year in the last decade was a 34-- much worse than this year.

You keep saying we do not have the personnel for a 34 scheme. The honest truth is we don't really have the personnel for either scheme.

I agree! And THAT is the major issue more than anything else.

I'll just leave it on this. Two seasons ago, with pretty much the same players, we were second in the league in sacks but middle of the pack in PPGA. This past season we were almost last in the league PPGA, but were decent in sacks. I don't think it gets much worse in a 34 scheme. I'd rather give it a try and make a switch trying to make things better than sit in mediocrity for another season.

I'd rather make things better by getting better players.

[shawnymoe]

Lol it doesn't matter who we bring in we need better players we can have the best coach in the world but if players can't tackle or cover or play smart like not leading the league in penaltys it won't matter all that much.......