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Thread: Raiders' QB quandary: Carson Palmer, Terrelle Pryor or neither?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live.B.A.Raida View Post
    I rarely jump in to other folks "e-beef," but the way some of you posters follow NoClaps around in to every thread he replies in are on the brink of harassement. In real life this is illegal. It's actually gotten to the point to where, to me, it's pretty disturbing and making this great FAN based message board less and less enjoyable. Who cares what his preference is. Some of you are really mad at this guy because he doesn't like Palmer? wow... build a bridge and get over it. Just like everyone else is, has, or will if Palmer remains as the QB. What is it really to you? Or are you that sensitive?

    Back to the topic: Raiders are kind of stuck in a no win with Palmer. Facts are he eats up a large sum of the cap room and even if we cut him he will still be a financial burden for a while. As far as his play, he is what he is at this point in his career, very average. People clamored last season, even when we were winning, for a QB that could elevate the teams play. Well, Palmer does not do that. I know I know, "Palmer doesn't play defense, Palmer doesn't drop passes, Palmer doesn't block for himself." We need improvement all the way around, and everyone pretty much agrees that every other player with a premium salary needs to go during this rebuild (Seymour [gone], McClain [all but gone], DHB, Kelly, Huff, etc), but when it comes to Palmer he should stay. Why? We're not going to be good for a few more years, so why hold on to a player that will likely not be a part of the team when we become relevant again? And please do not give me the excuse "we need to at least look decent or else RM and DA will be gone." No, they won't. If last season showed me anything it was that MD is going to allow the RM and DA experiment to play out the length of their contracts.

    If we're looking at another 3-5 win season does it really matter if we do it with Palmer? Will that 3-5 win total look that much better to folks because we had Palmer under center?
    For the money and the production we've seen out of CP I can understand how on the surface of things this looks really bad and to a degree it is, However we haven't really given him the tools to be successful yet. This was basically his first season with us and he had Knapp to deal with and NO RUN GAME, not to mention the receivers were just as inconsistent as they've ever been so yes it does make a lot of sense to not put the blame solely on him, everybody knows there's plenty of that to go around. I still live with the "CP is not the problem nor the long term answer" I imagine that he'll restructure his contract because we'll offer him fair market value and that's probably more than what he'll get somewhere else. Cutting him if he doesn't re-structure will be the best plan of management for our future, yes it will still hurt us in the short term but everything currently is hurting us in the short term.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by VEfreak View Post
    I would roll with Carson for this season, and maybe another year if we can finesse his contract. Pryor has the right attitude and work ethic so I am not willing to rule him out, but I would not hold my breathe waiting for him to develop into an NFL caliber passer.
    Financially and in all other practical matters this^ is the only way to go.

    You don't cut a guy that you have to pay that much money to whether he plays or not--and who is also the best player at his position. Deal with it. Palmer isn't going anywhere. He's not going to be cut, the organization isn't going to eat that contract, and Pryor isn't going to be elevated to starting qb based on the results of one meaningless game played on the last day of the season. We're also not going to make some blockbuster deal for a FA qb. The biggest splash we'll make at the position might be in the draft. But even then, it's doubtful.

    The organization's going to cut everyone they can who they believe is overpaid and/or underperforms. But Palmer won't be one of those players.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie View Post
    Or maybe it could have been that:

    Campbell was better than Gradkowski
    A cheap Pryor is better than a very expensive Palmer

    Ive heard the "race bait" claims for a long time and have tried to watch Claps posts and cant say i see whatever it is "the Joe" sees. Obviously Claps has a preference for athletic QBs, not sure if ive seen enough to call it a race thing.

    The point is, WHO THE **** CARES!

    Claps was in this post talking legitimate football and yet again "The Joe" and his posse completely diverted the topic by harassing a member of this site. I agree with the posters above, the **** got old a long time ago so find the ignore button. Oh wait, the fact that he often refers to himself in 3rd person and a "character" shows his intents not to talk about Raider football, its to attempt to be entertainment. The bottom line though is its not entertaining, its annoying. Because its Claps i guess its ok but you can bet your ass that if "the Joe" did the same type of trolling to Ran or any other old school poster on this site, theyd have been banned a long time ago.

    Enough you two, find the ignore button and let the rest of us grownups get back to talking about Raider football.

    Yours Truely,

    The Okie
    You spelled truly wrong.
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie View Post
    Or maybe it could have been that:

    Campbell was better than Gradkowski
    A cheap Pryor is better than a very expensive Palmer


    Ive heard the "race bait" claims for a long time and have tried to watch Claps posts and cant say i see whatever it is "the Joe" sees. Obviously Claps has a preference for athletic QBs, not sure if ive seen enough to call it a race thing.

    The point is, WHO THE **** CARES!

    Claps was in this post talking legitimate football and yet again "The Joe" and his posse completely diverted the topic by harassing a member of this site. I agree with the posters above, the **** got old a long time ago so find the ignore button. Oh wait, the fact that he often refers to himself in 3rd person and a "character" shows his intents not to talk about Raider football, its to attempt to be entertainment. The bottom line though is its not entertaining, its annoying. Because its Claps i guess its ok but you can bet your ass that if "the Joe" did the same type of trolling to Ran or any other old school poster on this site, theyd have been banned a long time ago.

    Enough you two, find the ignore button and let the rest of us grownups get back to talking about Raider football.

    Yours Truely,

    The Okie
    Those are good points if presented in that context... I just don't think I heard it presented in that context.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeKiev View Post
    You spelled truly wrong.
    Thanks. These tests keep getting tougher and tougher. Nearly 100wpm and unfortunately my fingers type faster than my brain. You know alot about that dont ya?

    :p

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWis76 View Post
    Those are good points if presented in that context... I just don't think I heard it presented in that context.
    Yeah i dont know know either. Claps gets the Swami treatment from me. Sometimes he (just like Swam) has a very valid point, some solid substance and a good argument. Too often it gets lost in the bull**** of him defending his opinion or himself in general with the trolls and at that point his point is lost.

    I know that feeling far too well.

    :p

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie View Post
    Thanks. These tests keep getting tougher and tougher. Nearly 100wpm and unfortunately my fingers type faster than my brain. You know alot about that dont ya?

    :p


    Yeah i dont know know either. Claps gets the Swami treatment from me. Sometimes he (just like Swam) has a very valid point, some solid substance and a good argument. Too often it gets lost in the bull**** of him defending his opinion or himself in general with the trolls and at that point his point is lost.

    I know that feeling far too well.

    :p
    Maybe you are right, I dunno... not my beef, just thought it funny so I had to comment.

    Where is Swami by the way? I know he had a bet with someone about not coming back for a year... is that why he hasn't been around. I know he could get people riled up at times, but he was a fun poster who had some good points.

  7. #97
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    Okie - you are one long winded mo fo at times (lol), but you are a good dude... just sayin.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLVR&BLK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoClapsPlease View Post
    we are in rebuilding mode, go with the younger QB to see what you've got headed into the 2014 draft where there are plenty of good QB's coming out

    putting all those chips up to get 4 or 5 wins is stupid, the logic makes no sense

    in your mind i'm sure you think we'll go 0-16 with pryor, so its better to go 4-12 with palmer

    thats stupid, in my opinion

    we need to look PAST next season.
    It sounds like your OK with going 0-16, as long as Palmer it's the QB any longer?
    Go full blown rebuild mode?

    I don't think McKenzie and Allen will see it that way, they want to be competitive, not wave the white flag.

    Now if Pryor shows up to camp and beats out Palmer, thats great, but that seems unlikely right now.
    We have a better chance at going 16-0 than going 0-16 bro.

    Gathering info on your team for futures sake is better than being "competitive " when we clearly are not competitive

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoClapsPlease View Post
    We have a better chance at going 16-0 than going 0-16 bro.

    Gathering info on your team for futures sake is better than being "competitive " when we clearly are not competitive
    If we clearly aren't competitive, than how do we stand a better chance of going 16-0 rather than 0-16?

    With that said, I do agree with your philosophy of looking to the future if we can't field a decent team... I'm just kind of waiting to see how the offseason unfolds before I am ready to fold on the season and concede to go with Pryor. I realize the decision may not allow the luxury of waiting to see how the offseason unfolds as there is a deadline looming due to Palmer's contract, but whatever the decision I'm gonna trust in Reggie because he has more insight as to what talent we can obtain and who he is targeting.

    I really hope we can trade down with that 1st round pick and obtain more picks.... cuz we need em' in a bad way.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWis76 View Post
    Okie - you are one long winded mo fo at times (lol), but you are a good dude... just sayin.
    First, I like discussions more so than statements, it is within those sentences from others that often open my eyes to perspectives i have never explored.

    Second, often my opinion is outside the box so i explain it further because i am a very substance driven person. You will never get an opinion from me without the logic or substance behind it.

    Third, by profession and i get paid to spend my day posing questions or concerns that most people dont think of, thinking outside of the box or obvious. With that comes the responsibility of explaining or elaborating as to why my perspective is important to acknowledge and think about. This obviously tends to translate into my forum posts as well, lol.

    Most importantly, i love the ****ing Raiders and living in Oklahoma, this forum is the only real place i get to talk about the Raiders. While my posts may be a mile long and you think they drag on, if you think about it, in a conversation it can all be said in less than 2 minutes.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    See what i did there, lolz

    Seriously, thanks though. Your are also on the list of posters i pay alot of attention to because you, like a few around here are very good at pointing out things that i dont often think of and this makes me reconsider or at least reevaluate my position or opinion. Keep em coming.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWis76 View Post
    LMAO! That's f-ing classic! A racist free board at RFN??

    The dude liked Campbell and Pryor - hated Gradkowski and Palmer... grant it, on the surface it may seem shallow to have a favortism to a player based on skin color but depending on how you look at it, there may be some legit socialphsychological issues that may come into play ie. like maybe dude grew up in a racist community that kept him from being a QB cause he was black. Or maybe he really is just shallow? But my point is you act like the guy is making the white QBs sit in the back of the bus or something. LMAO!

    But you know, this isn't something exclusive to dude. I mean I see it all the time when I watching boxing. Have a bunch of friends over and all my Mexican friends are rooting for the Mexican and all my black friends are rooting for the black dude. I have even been guilty of it rooting for a Pollack... lol. I don't think that in itself makes one racist. Unless there are arguments and posts I missed, I don't think dude is calling for a the whiteman to be sucked up by aliens and killed or anything.
    Do a search, you will find bait attempt after bait attempt. I mean it is commone knowledge. And don't think for a minute he doesn't want you to know it. Yeah, he thinks he's on some mission. lol. Anyway, I thought I was doing a service to the community? I thought we are supposed to stop racism!

    As far as Okie. lol. He's like my little internet puppet. Funny, for someone who says I am obsessed with someone else, he can't stop talking about me! lol. Wait, am I on his ignore list again? lol. boom.


    All right, I'm done with this silliness for a while. Thanks for the good times!

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeKiev View Post
    Do a search, you will find bait attempt after bait attempt. I mean it is commone knowledge. And don't think for a minute he doesn't want you to know it. Yeah, he thinks he's on some mission. lol. Anyway, I thought I was doing a service to the community? I thought we are supposed to stop racism!
    As far as Okie. lol. He's like my little internet puppet. Funny, for someone who says I am obsessed with someone else, he can't stop talking about me! lol. Wait, am I on his ignore list again? lol. boom.
    All right, I'm done with this silliness for a while. Thanks for the good times!
    You spelled common wrong.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoClapsPlease View Post
    We have a better chance at going 16-0 than going 0-16 bro.

    Gathering info on your team for futures sake is better than being "competitive " when we clearly are not competitive
    In theory, you're right, but it isn't realistic. The people making the decisions (RM and DA, specifically) can't afford to lose now and keep their jobs. They need results, which is why they will play the best players now, and clearly Palmer is a better QB than Pryor, right now.

    It is how all franchises work. As fans, we can throw in the towel on a season and hope that all young players grow, we get the #1 pick, an easier schedule, etc. but professional coaches and GMs can't do this.

    Also, there is the outside chance this team can win next year. I don't expect it, and no matter what they won't be a legitimate superbowl contender, but with some solid draft picks and a few good free agent pickups this team can conceivably win 9-10 games and secure a playoff spot.

    Every decision RM and DA will make is with the goal of winning this year in mind, even if you think it would be better in the long run to punt on this year.
    TheWis76, FROZEN and Okie like this.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie View Post
    You spelled common wrong.
    LMAO! Come on Joe, even you gotta admit.. that was a good one!

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by VEfreak View Post
    I would roll with Carson for this season, and maybe another year if we can finesse his contract. Pryor has the right attitude and work ethic so I am not willing to rule him out, but I would not hold my breathe waiting for him to develop into an NFL caliber passer.
    Yes, I agree. We have seen many years go bye without a bona fide NFL qb on the roster (obviously Campbell doesn't count). Do I think Carson will re-work his deal? Yes. But I don't believe it should be a deal breaker if he doesn't. I am intrigued to see him in a offense where we have a solid running game. Whether it be because of the scheme, or a combination of DMAC and the scheme, Palmer player very well when you consider that the running game was averaging under 90 YPG. I think this is the year to see if we can get the run game on track, hopefully find a go to wideout and roll the dice with palmer. IF he doesn't play well, then you oust him next year. Let Pryor develop, and see where we are this time next season. That is the best strategy.

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