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Thread: *video Tim Brown: Clarified comments on Dan Patrick show

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungary87 View Post
    Right but then Patrik pointed out that the new plan was actually the old plan. Instead of going run heavy, they would go pass happy as the did all year. He also pointed out that audibles and line calls were not changed due to lack of prep time.

    So, Tim, why would BRob go nuts if the plan was the same as what he did all year?

    Brown is off his rocker.
    let's say you learn to say certain calls, as in words, numbers... your told Friday that you have 2 days to learn something we used in week 8.. just because you used it before don't mean you can remember it every sunday.
    just as Tim stated they could not change calls on a Friday.. maybe a monday or Tues. but not on a Friday.

    I am not defending Tim, but as an example: I mix paint, and use many different formulas.. may use one for 2 weeks straight, then not see it again for 4 months, i have to look the formula up when the type or name of the tint comes back around, cause we use so many.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinz View Post
    It is my hope that Tim Brown is passed over for the HOF again. I have always had a strange feeling that he was a festering cancer in the locker room. That he was the bridge that turned the dissatisfaction from the Allen years into the soft, resentful, entitled, finger pointing locker rooms we have had for decades.

    Hall of Fame players should make those around them better. Tim was the leader of the raiders for almost two decades, two decades where we accomplished little with a lot. LeRoy Selmon and Ray Lewis and many many others are HOF players because they lifted the play of others. It is very hard to make a case that Tim did that.

    It is my hope Tim Brown does not get into the HOF because he doesn't deserve to be there. I think Gannon deserves to be there much more than Brown does. Brown caught balls, Brown didn't win. Brown is the opposite of a winner in pretty much every sense of the word.
    I pretty much agree with this. I think Tim will be lucky to get into the HOF not just this year but ever. As ou say, Tim Brown never made any player around him better. He certainly did not help and teach younger players, especially WR's as he viewed them as a threat to his position.

    It was well known that he was a type of cancer in the lockerrom, especially against some players but mostly against the coaches. He was the first into Al's office at the end of a season complaining about coaches.

    Seeing Rich Gannon will never get into the HOF, I am assuming you believe Tim Brown will never get in, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    Al wasn't a big fan of Timmy's as the years wound down. Something in reference to a statement he made about Notre dames recruiting practices.. I agree with you although I think bo Jackson's injury set us back a bit in the early 90s. Leon bender etc.. This team has been hit with a lot of tragic circumstance. Hard to put it on Tim or any one person.

    I think Al would of gotten a kick out of Timmy rah rahs recent statements. Although this is old news.
    Actually, Al did stay loyal to Tim and it was difficult for hime to cut Tim. I think the statement about ND was in reference to Gruden.

    The Torin Dorn tragedy did not help with the growth of the team either in the 90's.

    Some have accused Al's meddling for the change in offensive game plan. However, this was not Al's MO. He would effect changes to the defense but not on offense. Some also might say that if Bill Callahan changed the offensive gameplan on the Friday before he game without knowing, why wasn't he fired straight after the game. That answer is pretty smple. Can you imagine whe uproar if Al fired a first year HC who had just taken the team to the Superbowl? No, better for Al to let the 2003 season play out and hope the lockerrom turns on Callahan. Which is exactly what happened (led by Brown and Rice and others, BTW).

    I think Tim Brown did overstep the mark with the "sabotage" suggestion. There seems to be claims and counter-claims as to when the gameplan changed. One thing is certain is that it did change. What Tim is saying is feasible, when you consider reverting to the old audibles after they had been practicing new ones up until the Friday.

    Maybe we can all hope that Callahan sues Brown for defamation and it all plays out in court and we get all the details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinz View Post
    It is my hope that Tim Brown is passed over for the HOF again. I have always had a strange feeling that he was a festering cancer in the locker room. That he was the bridge that turned the dissatisfaction from the Allen years into the soft, resentful, entitled, finger pointing locker rooms we have had for decades.

    Hall of Fame players should make those around them better. Tim was the leader of the raiders for almost two decades, two decades where we accomplished little with a lot. LeRoy Selmon and Ray Lewis and many many others are HOF players because they lifted the play of others. It is very hard to make a case that Tim did that.

    It is my hope Tim Brown does not get into the HOF because he doesn't deserve to be there. I think Gannon deserves to be there much more than Brown does. Brown caught balls, Brown didn't win. Brown is the opposite of a winner in pretty much every sense of the word.
    Unfortunately Brown symbolizes the Raiders of the 90's, great individual players. I never liked when people referred to him as Mr. Raider, to me that title belongs to guys like Phil Villapiano and Gene Upshaw. Those were men who united and led their team. They made the Raiders great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djh_raider View Post

    Actually, Al did stay loyal to Tim and it was difficult for hime to cut Tim. I think the statement about ND was in reference to Gruden.
    No. What I'm talking about between Al and Tim happened a couple years ago.. not when he was cut. I don't like throwing the word "uncle Tom" around but it had to do with Tim, Notre Dame, and Al.. i'm sure a quick google search will bring up what i'm talking about.


    I never was a huge Tim Brown fan... but I'm definitely on his side regarding Callahan. Callahan was more of a cancer to this team than Timmy ever was.

    The veteran leadership we brought on board after the fact (Moss, Sapp).. even worse. It was a downward spiral that peaked with the incompetent Jamarcus Russell and incompetent snake coaches (kiffin etc).. we started to see the light a couple years ago. Now.. who the f*ck knows.. Pryors development is really my only hope.

    And that's not something I wished to rest my laurels on. Our track record as far as player development is not good, and believe it or not, arguably may be worse off now. But i don't want to get carried away here.. Let me stick to the thread topic:

    This is old news.. I don't know why all the fuss now when Tim has been saying this for years although with this franchise, it'd be a reach for me to say there's a lot to look forward to.

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    Didn't Tim say it was sabotage..........almost literally?

    Didn't Rice then back him up?

    Didn't Tim just pull the rug out from under Rice by saying it was just a bunch of guys playing poorly?

    I wish the weeks before the SB were not about this.

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    His agent got ahold of him and told him to backtrack, which is exactly what he did. He almost didn't even come on the show in the first place. Everyone realizes how stupid his original comments were, and now he is trying to "clarify" when none is needed.

    You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, Tim, we get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungary87 View Post
    Right but then Patrik pointed out that the new plan was actually the old plan. Instead of going run heavy, they would go pass happy as the did all year. He also pointed out that audibles and line calls were not changed due to lack of prep time.

    So, Tim, why would BRob go nuts if the plan was the same as what he did all year?

    Brown is off his rocker.
    right thats what i said. (or tried to say)
    as far as Barrett Robbins freaking out, even though they had a more pass heavy game plans all year, they still set their offense in practice all week, and prepare for the specific defense they are playing through the defenses film. The center will call out protections that he has prepared from watching the Bucs film on the defense. Different game plan means different calls than what he was practicing for all week. It wasn't just a couple add ons or tweaks, Brown said it was a completely different game plan. All the players questioned this move. This has to be the reason Barrett went AWOl. The pressure just quadrupled because of the game plan change. If I had to bet, I'd say the change was probably Al Davis though not Callahan.

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    I couldn't (you know) (uhh) listen to more than 4 (you know) minutes (uhh) of that interview (you know) because I couldn't (uhh) understand (you know) what the heck he was (uhhh) trying to say (you know) since it took him (uhhh) (you know) entirely too long just to (you know) try to get (uhhh) a single point (you know) across (you know).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi18 View Post
    let's say you learn to say certain calls, as in words, numbers... your told Friday that you have 2 days to learn something we used in week 8.. just because you used it before don't mean you can remember it every sunday.
    just as Tim stated they could not change calls on a Friday.. maybe a monday or Tues. but not on a Friday.

    I am not defending Tim, but as an example: I mix paint, and use many different formulas.. may use one for 2 weeks straight, then not see it again for 4 months, i have to look the formula up when the type or name of the tint comes back around, cause we use so many.
    Nice try, but the plays they ran in the Super Bowl are the same plays with the same signals they had been running all season. Week in and week out. And the four seasons before that. No one was asked to reach back in their memories to dust off some odd ball set of plays that were only run once before in the distant past.

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    Tim Brown should be passed over? GTFOH!!! Have yall lost your got damn minds?!?!?

    FACT: Callahan changed the damn game plan friday morning......

    After that it is ALL conjecture and his opinion which is backed up by HOF'er Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

    He also voices the opinion that the added stress of the last minute game plan change had robbins have a psychotic break....again...his opinion. What's comical is all these folks trying to tell a hall of famer in rice and a soon to be in brown how they should interpret something that they had 1st hand knowledge of.

    Start READING what he said and not what the headline was....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderFunk View Post
    Tim Brown should be passed over? GTFOH!!! Have yall lost your got damn minds?!?!?

    FACT: Callahan changed the damn game plan friday morning......

    After that it is ALL conjecture and his opinion which is backed up by HOF'er Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

    He also voices the opinion that the added stress of the last minute game plan change had robbins have a psychotic break....again...his opinion. What's comical is all these folks trying to tell a hall of famer in rice and a soon to be in brown how they should interpret something that they had 1st hand knowledge of.

    Start READING what he said and not what the headline was....
    This and only this^^^^
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    Tim was a great player, but at the same time .... Brown does rhyme with clown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    No. What I'm talking about between Al and Tim happened a couple years ago.. not when he was cut. I don't like throwing the word "uncle Tom" around but it had to do with Tim, Notre Dame, and Al.. i'm sure a quick google search will bring up what i'm talking about.


    I never was a huge Tim Brown fan... but I'm definitely on his side regarding Callahan. Callahan was more of a cancer to this team than Timmy ever was.

    The veteran leadership we brought on board after the fact (Moss, Sapp).. even worse. It was a downward spiral that peaked with the incompetent Jamarcus Russell and incompetent snake coaches (kiffin etc).. we started to see the light a couple years ago. Now.. who the f*ck knows.. Pryors development is really my only hope.

    And that's not something I wished to rest my laurels on. Our track record as far as player development is not good, and believe it or not, arguably may be worse off now. But i don't want to get carried away here.. Let me stick to the thread topic:

    This is old news.. I don't know why all the fuss now when Tim has been saying this for years although with this franchise, it'd be a reach for me to say there's a lot to look forward to.
    Ok, I get where you are coming from and I agree.

    Callahan really never wanted to be with the Raiders. He came because of Gruden. He saw the opportunity (as did Gruden) as a springboard to furthering a career rather than a desire to improve the franchise. It is well known his disgust for what went on. And, as documented, a few times he walked off the sideline during games. I think calling Callahan a cancer is a better term than than saying he sabotaged the Superbowl.

    I do not understand why this has become a media story now either. As you say Tim (and Jerry Rice and others) have been saying it since Callahan was dumped. Whether it is the media bumping the 10th Anniversary of the game or that Tim is up again for the HOF (though why was it not bought up last year) is anyone's guess. I think it maybe the former. It is also ironic that it coincides with Callahan being made OC at the Cowboys. Could be a warning shot to Jerry Jones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderFunk View Post
    Tim Brown should be passed over? GTFOH!!! Have yall lost your got damn minds?!?!?

    FACT: Callahan changed the damn game plan friday morning......

    After that it is ALL conjecture and his opinion which is backed up by HOF'er Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

    He also voices the opinion that the added stress of the last minute game plan change had robbins have a psychotic break....again...his opinion. What's comical is all these folks trying to tell a hall of famer in rice and a soon to be in brown how they should interpret something that they had 1st hand knowledge of.

    Start READING what he said and not what the headline was....
    With all due respect, blaming Callahan for Barrett Robbins mental breakdown is almost as asinine as suggesting Callahan intentionally threw the game. Robbins had well-documented mental health issues (twice leading to hospitalizations) long before Super Bowl XXXVII

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderFunk View Post
    Tim Brown should be passed over? GTFOH!!! Have yall lost your got damn minds?!?!?

    FACT: Callahan changed the damn game plan friday morning......

    After that it is ALL conjecture and his opinion which is backed up by HOF'er Jerry Rice and Charlie Garner

    He also voices the opinion that the added stress of the last minute game plan change had robbins have a psychotic break....again...his opinion. What's comical is all these folks trying to tell a hall of famer in rice and a soon to be in brown how they should interpret something that they had 1st hand knowledge of.

    Start READING what he said and not what the headline was....
    Yeah, I agree. Brown just raised the question. Never said it was facts but backed it up with details of events.

    What is strange is the contradictions by other players. I can understand Romo as the defense would probably not know. The comments by Kennedy, Gannon, and Crockett while not directly contradicting what Tim has said suggest a different scenario. Given Gannon's performance in the game, he should be the 1st to agree with Tim but maybe he is not to keep his broadcasting career intact.

    It would seem highly unlikely that the likes of Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, Zack Crokett, Rich Gannon, and Lincoln Kennedy (all senior players) would all be in the same room when this is announced and have different stories unless it suits their agendas.

    Best we can hope for, is that Callahan sues Brown for defamation, and the story comes out in full (even that is doubtful).
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    #107 - DT, Will Sutton
    #149 - RB, Lache Seastrunk
    #183 - G, Chris Watt
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    #235 - WR, Jeff Janis

    QANTAS - even when an engine explodes the catering/service is STILL the biggest disaster on a Qantas flight!!!

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