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Thread: NE should have given up on Belichick in 2000

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    USAF_Sgt's Avatar
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    NE should have given up on Belichick in 2000

    I mean seriously. The Pats were 10-6 (1997), 9-7 (1998) and 8-8 in 1999 under Pete Carrol. Belichick was hired in 2000 and the Pats regressed, they finished at 5-11. How does "such a great coach" cause a team that should have been in the playoffs to regress? I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe they retained him after the 2000 season. If NE was being run by some of our "Couch GM's" in 2000 he would have been fired along with the GM for (Insert whatever coach won't come to the raiders because the team is a joke...even if it is only 1 of 32 jobs in the world).

    Hopefully some of you guys can pick up on the sarcasm. Stay the course with DA, you won't regret it.

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    BVJ
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    Agreed. 5-11 fire him.

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    To be sure, Palmer = bledsoe. Who is Brady?
    JohnnyDemonic likes this.
    Mr. Auburn Tiger....turned Oakland Raider backup plan after our savior turned out to be what we should have expected him to be.


    Jason "Check Down" Campbell

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    Absolutely nothing wrong with this post at all.

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    I support DA. I'm not convinced that he's a good HC. But under the circumstance I don't see any other option but to give him time.

    Another example is Parcells. The Giants looked promising in 1981 with the rookie phenom Lawrence Taylor and emerging QB in Phil Simms. In 1982 they were 4-5 in a strike-shortened season and fired Ray Perkins.

    Parcells first year they regressed to 3-12-1. And Parcells looked kind of lost at times. Anyway you know the rest.

    No guarantee whatsoever that Allen will succeed. But as we saw with the OC search, it's not always so simple. Re-tread or young turk? The "superstar" candidates - the ones still presumed available - don't necessarily add up either. Guys like Cowher or Gruden may not really want a HC job, or they want it only if they have full control.

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    No. Progress now and all the time. We were 8-8 so we should be superbowl bound this year. It's not life we were 24 million dollar over the cap last year with little draft picks and not many ways to improve Oh wait we were 24 million over the cap, with none of our premium draft picks, and no general manager to work free agency and sign picks. Does anyone really think Mark Davis and Hue could have done free agency and the draft? That either of them know anything about writing up a contract and signing players. POlus Hue had lost the team with his post season melt down. They were not playing hard and their hearts were not in it anymore. So a general manager had to be hired, and when you hire a general manager you have to let him execute his vision. DA is part of that vision and he still deserves a chance considering the roster he had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete_gas21 View Post
    To be sure, Palmer = bledsoe. Who is Brady?
    pryor

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAF_Sgt View Post
    I mean seriously. The Pats were 10-6 (1997), 9-7 (1998) and 8-8 in 1999 under Pete Carrol. Belichick was hired in 2000 and the Pats regressed, they finished at 5-11. How does "such a great coach" cause a team that should have been in the playoffs to regress? I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe they retained him after the 2000 season. If NE was being run by some of our "Couch GM's" in 2000 he would have been fired along with the GM for (Insert whatever coach won't come to the raiders because the team is a joke...even if it is only 1 of 32 jobs in the world).

    Hopefully some of you guys can pick up on the sarcasm. Stay the course with DA, you won't regret it.
    I've read some of your past posts. You always come across as respectful, so I'm trying to remain equally respectful when I ask this, but: Couldn't this have gone in one of the other 20 or so DA threads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabbulous View Post
    Absolutely nothing wrong with this post at all.
    Cool, but did he really mention anything that hasn't already been discussed ad nauseum?

    And for the record, I've already said I'm alright (not like I have any say in the matter, anyway) with giving DA another year, so let's not play the "hater" card. I'm merely saying that whenever someone starts a thread even remotely suggesting we should replace DA with someone else, they're immediately attacked by posters asking if another thread is necessary to address the issue, but when the opposite is done, nobody seems to take exception with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete_gas21 View Post
    To be sure, Palmer = bledsoe. Who is Brady?
    Quote Originally Posted by raiders4o8 View Post
    pryor
    LMAO! that is awesome

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    With all due respect, I absolutely hate this argument. First off you can clearly see the Patriots were already trending downwards when he was hired, where as you can make an argument we were going in the opposite direction before DA showed up. Furthermore there are a million more examples of bad coaches who were just bad coaches who never got better. Would keeping Art Shell 2.0 or Joe Bugel really have been the answer? After all they only had on year as coach. Maybe if they only had more time we could have been a contender. Pointing to the rare examples of a Belicheck is almost like claiming you are likely to have a winning lotto ticket because somebody else once won the lottery. It doesn't work like that. And for the record Belicheck had a much stronger resume than DA and that tends to buy a little patience. Either way DA is our coach and i hope it works out, but people need to realize that not everyone is willing to drink the kool-aid. After the last decade, blind hope doesn't work for me. I need to see it on the field, and so far the Reg, DA era has been a complete and total failure.

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    SF_Raider_Fan is offline Banned
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    What about the hundred coaches who stayed two, three, four years and more, only to eventually leave town with a .350 percentage w/l record ?

    Quote Originally Posted by USAF_Sgt View Post
    I mean seriously. The Pats were 10-6 (1997), 9-7 (1998) and 8-8 in 1999 under Pete Carrol. Belichick was hired in 2000 and the Pats regressed, they finished at 5-11. How does "such a great coach" cause a team that should have been in the playoffs to regress? I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe they retained him after the 2000 season. If NE was being run by some of our "Couch GM's" in 2000 he would have been fired along with the GM for (Insert whatever coach won't come to the raiders because the team is a joke...even if it is only 1 of 32 jobs in the world).

    Hopefully some of you guys can pick up on the sarcasm. Stay the course with DA, you won't regret it.

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    reapersgt's Avatar
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    Bill Belichick has worked under five head coaches:

    Ted Marchibroda, Baltimore Colts (1975)
    Tommy Hudspeth, Detroit Lions (1976–1977)
    Red Miller, Denver Broncos (1978)
    Ray Perkins, New York Giants (1979–1982)
    Bill Parcells, New York Giants (1982–1990), New England Patriots (1996), New York Jets (1997–1999)

    (25 years of NFL experience 12 under Parcells)


    NFL head coaches under whom Dennis Allen has served:

    Dan Reeves, Atlanta Falcons (2002-2003)
    Wade Phillips, Atlanta Falcons (2003) (interim head coach)
    Jim L. Mora, Atlanta Falcons (2004-2005)
    Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints (2006-2010)
    John Fox, Denver Broncos (2011)

    (9 years of NFL experience 4 under Sean Payton)
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Gable View Post
    With all due respect, I absolutely hate this argument. First off you can clearly see the Patriots were already trending downwards when he was hired, where as you can make an argument we were going in the opposite direction before DA showed up. Furthermore there are a million more examples of bad coaches who were just bad coaches who never got better. Would keeping Art Shell 2.0 or Joe Bugel really have been the answer? After all they only had on year as coach. Maybe if they only had more time we could have been a contender. Pointing to the rare examples of a Belicheck is almost like claiming you are likely to have a winning lotto ticket because somebody else once won the lottery. It doesn't work like that. And for the record Belicheck had a much stronger resume than DA and that tends to buy a little patience. Either way DA is our coach and i hope it works out, but people need to realize that not everyone is willing to drink the kool-aid. After the last decade, blind hope doesn't work for me. I need to see it on the field, and so far the Reg, DA era has been a complete and total failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by SF_Raider_Fan View Post
    What about the hundred coaches who stayed 2, 3, 4 years and more, only to eventually leave town with a .350 percentage w/l record ?
    Quote Originally Posted by reapersgt View Post
    Bill Belichick has worked under five head coaches:

    Ted Marchibroda, Baltimore Colts (1975)
    Tommy Hudspeth, Detroit Lions (1976–1977)
    Red Miller, Denver Broncos (1978)
    Ray Perkins, New York Giants (1979–1982)
    Bill Parcells, New York Giants (1982–1990), New England Patriots (1996), New York Jets (1997–1999)

    (25 years of NFL experience 12 under Parcells)


    NFL head coaches under whom Dennis Allen has served:

    Dan Reeves, Atlanta Falcons (2002-2003)
    Wade Phillips, Atlanta Falcons (2003) (interim head coach)
    Jim L. Mora, Atlanta Falcons (2004-2005)
    Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints (2006-2010)
    John Fox, Denver Broncos (2011)

    (9 years of NFL experience 4 under Sean Payton)
    All arguments that have also been brought up in the past, but nobody wants to listen to them. I've already brought up several arguments as to why I'm cautiously optimistic this coming year with regards to DA's abilities, so I'll leave it at that.

    Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. IMO, only a fool would want DA to fail, but also only a fool would give DA a pass. If he doesn't produce a 9-7 record or better, he needs to be out the door. We were essentially told that the reason we sucked this year was because of Knapp by them getting rid of him. In a much better position cap-wise (no, I'm not saying it's ideal, but better), with both him and Tarver having had a full year under their belts, and assuming we grab a game-changer at #3 in the draft, there's no more room for excuses. 8-8 might save his hide for another year, but 7-9 or worse needs to point him towards the exit.
    Dark Gable likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Gable View Post
    With all due respect, I absolutely hate this argument. First off you can clearly see the Patriots were already trending downwards when he was hired, where as you can make an argument we were going in the opposite direction before DA showed up. Furthermore there are a million more examples of bad coaches who were just bad coaches who never got better. Would keeping Art Shell 2.0 or Joe Bugel really have been the answer? After all they only had on year as coach. Maybe if they only had more time we could have been a contender. Pointing to the rare examples of a Belicheck is almost like claiming you are likely to have a winning lotto ticket because somebody else once won the lottery. It doesn't work like that. And for the record Belicheck had a much stronger resume than DA and that tends to buy a little patience. Either way DA is our coach and i hope it works out, but people need to realize that not everyone is willing to drink the kool-aid. After the last decade, blind hope doesn't work for me. I need to see it on the field, and so far the Reg, DA era has been a complete and total failure.
    I'm not sure yet about Allen, but I don't agree with everything you have here.

    #1 Were we really going up? Back-to-back 8-8 seasons is more like maintaining mediocrity, especially considering the state of the AFC West. One could argue we peaked just as easily.

    #2 There are more than just a Bellichek; Bill Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, etc. - it's not as rare as a winning lotto ticket. There are easily at least 15-20 great coaches that started out with less than 6 wins and became successful. The reason this argument even comes up, is because people say he should be fired and that he's a joke because he lost so many games. This point only highlights that this isn't necessarily a black and white thing.

    You are entitled to your opinion, I have mine, and everyone has their own. I will say this, I don't have blind hope, I see reason for hope - not blind and not complete and not unquestioned.
    foodisgood70 likes this.

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    Live.B.A.Raida is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete_gas21 View Post
    To be sure, Palmer = bledsoe. Who is Brady?
    Allen = Bellicheck, Palmer = Bledsoe, and Pryor = Brady. Here we come SB's!
    Dirt Dog likes this.

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