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Thread: mark Davis and mckenzie meeting tomorrow

  1. #91
    jrhone is offline Limited Membership
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You can start with everyone who thinks that if we fire DA after one season and go looking for our fourth head coach in as many years, any HC candidates with ANY options whatsoever would even dream of coming here. Why uproot your life to come to Oakland and get canned after a year?
    If you were a Coach. Would you interview with a team that had fired someone for doing a HORRIBLE job previously??? There are 2 questionable firings in the past 6 years.

    1. Tom Cable (actually his contract expired)

    He got results, first season in a while that was not a losing season. He gets fired because the OC was going to leave and be a HC somewhere else and Al really liked the OC.

    2. Hue Jackson

    Was 1 game away from the playoffs and was fired for assuming a GM role when there wasnt a GM and the Owner/Gm died midseason.


    Other than that, coaches were fired for bad performances.

    If I were a head coach, the question I would ask myself would be, "Am I a better coach than DA?". If so, I take the job.

    Gruden is not saying, I wont take this job because if I do a good job I may get fired as well. NFL, stands for 'NOT FOR LONG' if you dont get results. Thats all over the league, not just in Oakland.

    Im ANY work environment this is true. You cannot be BAD at your job and expect to keep it just because the company wants consistency. If any CEO did that he would be irresponsible. DA needs to take responsibility for his decisions and this teams performance.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by SF_Raider_Fan View Post
    Agreed. The "reports" that potential coaches don't want to work for the Raiders are made up bullsh*t.
    Wearing the Silver & Black is a great job, an honor.
    It might be a more desirable job with the coach having some control now, but it was not like that the last 10 years. Most viable HC would not touch the position. Parcells was a great friend of Al but would never work for him. This is why we ended up with a bunch of guys that ran pretty much what Al told them to. Cable and Marshall were both fired for calling their own game. Hue let his head get too big and RM felt there was no way to reign him in.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OTF View Post
    If Davis tells Reggie the following I am good with it!

    "Reggie, Knapp has to go do what you have to do to get that sorry excuse for a coach out of here. If Allen won't fire him, you too it and fire Allen but Knapp has got to go!"
    Is davis a heavy drinker?

  4. #94
    SF_Raider_Fan is offline Banned
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    Al Davis is deceasd.
    Now coaching for the Raiders is a great opportunity which plenty of qualified guys would love to have. It is Mark's job to identify outstanding people and hire them.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    Qualified coaches DIDN'T want to work here during Al's last decade or so, because he'd fire you if you didn't produce great results with a team full of track stars and weight-room demons who had zero football sense, all the while being forced to run Al's schemes.

    .

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You can start with everyone who thinks that if we fire DA after one season and go looking for our fourth head coach in as many years, any HC candidates with ANY options whatsoever would even dream of coming here. Why uproot your life to come to Oakland and get canned after a year?
    You deserve to get canned if you aren't good at your job.. the amount of time has nothing to do with sh*t. It's about acknowledging it. Chuck Noll.. when he joined pittsburgh said "I looked at the tape, and the fact is you guys aren't any good" and then he drafted incredibly well. he did that the MOMENT he entered the doors.. Pittsburgh didn't have a history of winning SH*T prior to his arrival. and said this TO HIS PLAYERS. he didn't say this after he witnessed them losing as a coach.. he said it from the get go.. This emphasized accountability from the onset.. this team has REGRESSED from last year.

    it isn't just about time.. it's about knowing what you have to work with.. and guess what this years coaches didn't have a f*ckin clue of.. they didn't even come in and say "HEY WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WHOLE SH*T UP and go 4-12 this year!".. they are only saying it after the fact as a cop-out...just like many MANY diluted fans.

    These coaches don't know the first thing about accountability or what they have to work with.. that's the problem. Ida never hired these guys in the first place. And if you tell me you know RMs agenda you are full of sh*t. None of us do. I'm just hoping Mark Davis is willing to finally get to the bottom of this crapfest.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You can start with everyone who thinks that if we fire DA after one season and go looking for our fourth head coach in as many years, any HC candidates with ANY options whatsoever would even dream of coming here. Why uproot your life to come to Oakland and get canned after a year?
    The list is limited to guys with limited options, and would take the HC and same situation is at OC. You have to have limited options to accept the OC position working under Allen.

    1. The cap situation

    2. No draft picks

    3. Constant coaching turnover, you uproot your family, and DA is gone in a year or two, said OC is gone too.

    We are limited to guys that want to move from position coach to OC. A guy who has failed in the past and has no options, but position coach (Knapp). Or a guy who is in a Tarver situation. Lots of years in the NFL, but never moved up the ladder and went on to NCAA football. We are in a bad situation. It will take time to clean up our reputation, lack of draft picks to help a coach build and keep his job, and cap room to make a coaches team better. I feel we have been very lucky with Tarver. It could have been much, much worse. If we have the guy we want at head coach on the hook then it would be a total house cleaning. The fan dream is a guy like Gruden comes in, and with his reputation brings a good staff. Highly unlikely though.

    A no name coach has a slim chance of lasting in Oakland, so it would be much different if we landed a Gruden type. Coaches would assume he would get all the time he needed, as opposed to Allen. Allen is probably 2 and out at best so every coach on his staff is a lame duck. Oakland is a hard to win situation for the reasons listed above. Only a desperate man who fits the description of Knapp, and his dream of being a head coach and a Tarver type would take Coordinator jobs. We need to find that Tarver type guy for the offense. Allen brought in a guy that failed in Oakland before, why did he create this mess? Fans will have Knapp on a short leash and stop attending games. People hate Knapp, and a lot of it has to do with his failures in Oakland before. Fans will have no patience for a guy who is calling the plays, has failed before, and the running game has fell off the map with him as the OC.

    The coaching job in Oakland will take time to find it's way back to being a desirable job. It starts with the cap getting sorted out, and the not trading draft picks. Last but not least, giving a head coach some time. If Mark is in the middle of hiring Jon Gruden , well a name coach can bypass all of that. He can bring in a staff on his name alone, and help this organization to move forward.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider Ran View Post
    It might be a more desirable job with the coach having some control now, but it was not like that the last 10 years. Most viable HC would not touch the position. Parcells was a great friend of Al but would never work for him. This is why we ended up with a bunch of guys that ran pretty much what Al told them to. Cable and Marshall were both fired for calling their own game. Hue let his head get too big and RM felt there was no way to reign him in.
    So tired of this tired rhetoric.. coaches didn't have any control 'wahh wahh' .. lot of good control is doing them right now.

    And by the way, if you think these coaches have 'control' over this team, you don't know what control is.

    Cable and Marshall were not fired for WHAT they did, it was HOW they did it. you need to learn the difference.

    And Cable wasn't fired, his contract expired and Hue was promoted.

    Keep spreading your anti-Al propaganda though.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    You deserve to get canned if you aren't good at your job.. the amount of time has nothing to do with sh*t. It's about acknowledging it. Chuck Noll.. when he joined pittsburgh said "I looked at the tape, and the fact is you guys aren't any good" and then he drafted incredibly well. he did that the MOMENT he entered the doors.. Pittsburgh didn't have a history of winning SH*T prior to his arrival. and said this TO HIS PLAYERS.
    You are aware that Chuck Noll went 1-13 his first season, right? Do you think Art Rooney should have fired him then?
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You are aware that Chuck Noll went 1-13 his first season, right? Do you think Art Rooney should have fired him then?
    No but he also didn't inherit a team that went 8-8. You missed the point. He was able to establish his teams strengths and weaknesses from the onset.

    if he went 1-13 after the team went 8-8 the year before? hell yes.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You are aware that Chuck Noll went 1-13 his first season, right? Do you think Art Rooney should have fired him then?
    Until he proves otherwise, DA is no Chuck Noll. Nor is he Bill Belichick, Jimmy Johnson, or Bill Walsh.

    Based on the decision making he has demonstrated so far, I would say DA is closer to Mike White, Joe Bugel, Eric Mangini, or any other coach with a career losing record. DA is 4-11, soon to be 4-12 as a HC in this league. He took a team that was one game away from the playoffs last season and has proceeded to underachieve in every facet of the game. How long do we wait for DA to catch on? Where are the signs that things are about to improve?

    Defense is supposedly his forte. You can plainly see how the Denver defense is flourishing under Jack DelRio and playing far better than it ever did when DA was DC.

    Reggie needs to learn to use his head when hiring the next head coach. All indications are his "gut" decision has failed.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commit2Excel View Post
    Until he proves otherwise, DA is no Chuck Noll. Nor is he Bill Belichick, Jimmy Johnson, or Bill Walsh.

    Based on the decision making he has demonstrated so far, I would say DA is closer to Mike White, Joe Bugel, Eric Mangini, or any other coach with a career losing record. DA is 4-11, soon to be 4-12 as a HC in this league. He took a team that was one game away from the playoffs last season and has proceeded to underachieve in every facet of the game. How long do we wait for DA to catch on? Where are the signs that things are about to improve?

    Defense is supposedly his forte. You can plainly see how the Denver defense is flourishing under Jack DelRio and playing far better than it ever did when DA was DC.

    Reggie needs to learn to use his head when hiring the next head coach. All indications are his "gut" decision has failed.
    Manning or DelRio?

    Tim Tebow ran that offense. Peyton Manning comes on the field, and does whatever he wants. Long drives and chews clock or scores quick, then D comes on the field, and the Denver D pins their ear back because the opponent is trailing. Denver D is in a situation very few teams are EVER IN. It takes a Hall of Famer to do that. Allen would look just as good with Miller coming into his second year and the best pass rusher in the league pinning his ears back and doing what he does well. That D will be tested in the play-offs. Can they win it all? Is Peyton good enough to do that for them? Will there pass rush look like the NY Giants and dominate a game? The Denver D will be responsible for whether or not they win it all, because Peyton is going to do what eh does. Guess what? They won't win it all, because it's mostly Peyton Manning.
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  12. #102
    jrhone is offline Limited Membership
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    You are aware that Chuck Noll went 1-13 his first season, right? Do you think Art Rooney should have fired him then?
    Thanks for bringing that up! I LOVE when people bring that up...or Bill Walsh, or Bellichick.

    1. Those guys inherited teams that were worse. DA inherited an 8-8 team. The team went 8-8 the 2 previous years and if it were not for major injuries probably would have easily won the AFC west the previous year.

    2. The average loss for the Raiders this year is 20+ points. The average loss for those teams is more like 8 points...yes I did the research...So those teams were at the least competitive and one possession here or there would have done wonders, for the 2012 Raiders, one possession wouldnt make a difference at all since we average 3 possession losses.

    3. Those coaches didnt doo things that baffled experts and fans alike. If you asked 100 High School, College or NFL coaches...

    In a close game you are down by 9 points and your defense is holding the opposition scoreless in the 2nd half. You have the ball in the red zone and the most consistent kicker in the league under 40 years (hasnt missed one). Its 4th down and 4. Your backup QB is in and there is 6 minutes left in the 4th. Do you Kick a FG, and then put your stout D pack on the field, or go for it on 4th and 4?

    NO ONE would say go for it.

    Yet thats exactly what DA did. Dont you want a coach to make a GOOD decision to help his team win? You cant chalk that up to Rookie HC inexperience, A Pee Wee coach should know that!

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTWINBABY9111 View Post
    Manning or DelRio?

    Tim Tebow ran that offense. Peyton Manning comes on the field, and does whatever he wants. Long drives and chews clock or scores quick, then D comes on the field, and the Denver D pins their ear back because the opponent is trailing. Denver D is in a situation very few teams are EVER IN. It takes a Hall of Famer to do that. Allen would look just as good with Miller coming into his second year and the best pass rusher in the league pinning his ears back and doing what he does well. That D will be tested in the play-offs. Can they win it all? Is Peyton good enough to do that for them? Will there pass rush look like the NY Giants and dominate a game? The Denver D will be responsible for whether or not they win it all, because Peyton is going to do what eh does. Guess what? They won't win it all, because it's mostly Peyton Manning.
    Point well taken, there is likely a Manning effect. Time will tell and we will soon find out if Denver has enough on D to win it all. Me thinks that they have enough to at least represent the AFC.

    I would still hire DelRio over DA or Tarver as DC, all things being equal.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhone View Post
    Thanks for bringing that up! I LOVE when people bring that up...or Bill Walsh, or Bellichick.

    1. Those guys inherited teams that were worse. DA inherited an 8-8 team.
    Belichick inherited a Patriots team that was 8-8 and 9-7 the previous two seasons (under Pete Carroll) and went 5-11 his first year. Should Bob Kraft have fired him then?
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderDuck View Post
    Belichick inherited a Patriots team that was 8-8 and 9-7 the previous two seasons (under Pete Carroll) and went 5-11 his first year. Should Bob Kraft have fired him then?
    Are there any signs that DA is about to turn things around?

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