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Thread: Oakland Raiders OC Greg Knapp preaching patience

  1. #106
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    We all have opinions concerning this situation and everyone feels that their opinion is the valid one. the bums have regressed that should not be debatable at this point. I mean every time someone brings it to light some people say>>> So you are saying 8-8 is good enough ect. It turns into a straw man argument. At this point I want the Raiders season euthanized because it's inhumane for any fan base to have to continually endure this type of suffering. Personally I do not care for Knapp, I am sick of being patient. I been patient for 10 years now. But on the flip side of the coin... Maybe they will get the ship righted... And I say maybe, because nothing is certain. It's as likely in two years Knapp is looking for another job, R.M is saying he felt like the Raiders needed to make a change. and we are debating whether the next guy's system will be worth a crap. spin it how you want but being a Raider fan these past ten years has not been easy. and there is no absolutes that the future under this regime will yield a championship .

    We are all debating our points and opinions in terms of absolutes and imperatives. The only imperative is >>>this has been UGLY all season long. Can't wait for the off season when the focus will shift from "Palmer sucks. Knapp sucks, Al sucked, All the players suck, all the coaches suck. to new signed player, and who are the Raiders going to draft topics.. JMO
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca_Brasi View Post
    I am going to play devil's advocate and side with the coaches.

    1) It's not Knapp who drops SO many frikkin balls.
    Or coaches not minding their gap or taking a bad angle or missing tackles.

    Personal accountability.



    Quote Originally Posted by Luca_Brasi View Post
    2) DA and RM are cleaning house. No job is safe. It is hard to have a high moral when you could be on the chopping block.
    Certainly morale would be impacted in any business with layoffs looming, but one should always do the best job they can. It goes to character.

    And in an industry where the entire nation is watching you work every weekend, you better damn well be performing on camera if you want to get a job when the axe does come down.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca_Brasi View Post
    I am going to play devil's advocate and side with the coaches.
    YOU SON OF A .........



  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy316 View Post
    When has DA ever been a 43 guy?

    New Orleans ran a 43 when he was there for 5 years. He ran a 43 in Denver too.
    What...you expect me to know what I'm talking about? This is the innernet dammit and I am free to spout off my unsupportable and misinformed opinion!
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonicus View Post
    You would think they don't need motivation when they're making the money they're making (I sure as hell wouldn't), but the league is littered with players just collecting a paycheck while going through the motions. Haynesworth is probably the best example of this, but even within our own team: Russell. The guy even failed at "becoming a better person" from that life coach or whatever that guy was that basically quit on him.

    I would normally agree with you, but when these guys aren't making the money guys that were cut were making (Routt, Wimbley) and they're essentially playing for their futures, it's entirely conceivable (to me, anyway) that these guys aren't buying what Knapp's selling. These guys are human, and if they view their efforts as exercises in futility, they may shut down mentally and not even care. Not saying I agree with it and I'm hoping players like that get cut, but if Knapp and company stay and can't get the new guys to play their best, we haven't really accomplished anything by replacing the players and not the staff.
    That's certainly plausable, however as Mile High alluded to, where's the personal accountability from the players? If what you say is true that some guys aren't buying into the system then those guys should be replaced its that simple. The days of keeping poorly motivated unproductive personnel are over... time to cut their losses and find players that are motivated.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    That's certainly plausable, however as Mile High alluded to, where's the personal accountability from the players? If what you say is true that some guys aren't buying into the system then those guys should be replaced its that simple. The days of keeping poorly motivated unproductive personnel are over... time to cut their losses and find players that are motivated.
    Indeed, and even if you don't necessarily buy into the system, that doesn't give you the right to take the play off. Play hard and give it a chance. Do your job and let the coaches do theirs (picking the system, calling the plays). It may or may not work in the end, but it damn well won't work if you're taking the play off.
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by sa_dick_steele View Post
    Let me bring up this point again. Last week the assistant coaches Knapp and Tarver were interviewed by reporters in what almost seemed like a "let me keep my job because" interview. Both brought up thier points and said what they expect and want to implement. The game after the interviews showed, defense responded for thier coach with a shut out. The offense responded with 5 field goals? Now they did control the clock for 40 mins, which is impressive. But 5 field goals isn't going to cut it for the offense. That should be enough to show that Knapp's tenure here is all but done after the season. It's also enough to show people that this team hasn't "quit", shut out plus 40 mins time of possesion, no quiting there. DA and Tarver should stay, g-bye to Knapp and hopefully Pollack too.
    OK let me get this straight, the offense gets worst so we need to fire Knapp. The defense goes from terrible to pathetic and Tarver keeps his job. Something is fishy here.
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapshotartist View Post
    OK let me get this straight, the offense gets worst so we need to fire Knapp. The defense goes from terrible to pathetic and Tarver keeps his job. Something is fishy here.
    I think it has more to do with the way they have responded. You gotta admit, even though it was the Chiefs, the defense responded bigtime. Offense did not, and Knapp's playcalling has been questionable at best. I like the scheme, but his playcalling is atrocious. I've liked the defensive playcalling, you can see what they are trying to accomplish most of the time, but low talent and stupidity has gotten in the players way. Knapp has gotten in his own way. Sure things would look better if the players would catch the ball and lineman would pickup the correct blocks, but sweeps on 3rd and 1, or fullback dives on a long 4th and 1 don't even come close to making sense half the time. Way too many 3 and outs and not scoring for thier first drive of the game all season as well shows predictability, also keeps the defense on the field way too long.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighRaider View Post
    Indeed, and even if you don't necessarily buy into the system, that doesn't give you the right to take the play off. Play hard and give it a chance. Do your job and let the coaches do theirs (picking the system, calling the plays). It may or may not work in the end, but it damn well won't work if you're taking the play off.
    Well said. I do believe in Oakland this is more often the case than not... Too many scholarship players that were allowed to do what they wanted.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    Well said. I do believe in Oakland this is more often the case than not... Too many scholarship players that were allowed to do what they wanted.
    Yep, sadly so.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    The reason it continues to be debated is there are differing opinions with regard to the perceived talent on the roster. There will always be a debate about whether or not the players are talented enough to execute the scheme. It still boils down to being able to execute. At least that's what Darryl Johnston believes...
    What I hear from your is that players should be able to execute everything the coaches draw up or they are bad players. All players have strengths and weaknesses. Its up to the coaches to figure those out and implement schemes and plays that work to the strengths of the most players. Knapp hasn't done that.

    Its not all on the players. Its not all on the coaches. This year we had a combination of players who could not execute enough and coaches who could not adjust enough.
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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sa_dick_steele View Post
    I think it has more to do with the way they have responded. You gotta admit, even though it was the Chiefs, the defense responded bigtime. Offense did not, and Knapp's playcalling has been questionable at best. I like the scheme, but his playcalling is atrocious. I've liked the defensive playcalling, you can see what they are trying to accomplish most of the time, but low talent and stupidity has gotten in the players way. Knapp has gotten in his own way. Sure things would look better if the players would catch the ball and lineman would pickup the correct blocks, but sweeps on 3rd and 1, or fullback dives on a long 4th and 1 don't even come close to making sense half the time. Way too many 3 and outs and not scoring for thier first drive of the game all season as well shows predictability, also keeps the defense on the field way too long.
    First of all let me say that I'm not saying that Knapp is a good OC, what I'm saying is with our lack of talent how can you blame our losing on Knapp. Take a look at our offense for a minute and lets say DMC is healthty, we have DMC and CP and nothing else so what does Knapp have to work with? DHB and Moore can not be counted on to catch the football on a regular basis and Meyers is doing OK so we have CP, DMC and Meyers and a weak OL. What could any OC do with this set up? Now throw in our sorry azz defense who can't stop anyone so the offense is always playing from behind and what is Knapp or Bill Walsh suppose to do to put points on the board? And don't forget our weak azz ST's! So what does DA and Knapp really have to work with to win anything? It is what it is Dick, we suck big time and I can't blame the coaches for this ship wreck. Once we start getting some legit NFL football players the gloves will come off and I'll start holding the coaches accountable.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighRaider View Post
    Indeed, and even if you don't necessarily buy into the system, that doesn't give you the right to take the play off. Play hard and give it a chance. Do your job and let the coaches do theirs (picking the system, calling the plays). It may or may not work in the end, but it damn well won't work if you're taking the play off.
    And this is what gets me MHR you have fans here who refuse to hold the players accountable for anything. Every problem is someone else's problem but never the players.
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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapshotartist View Post
    First of all let me say that I'm not saying that Knapp is a good OC, what I'm saying is with our lack of talent how can you blame our losing on Knapp. Take a look at our offense for a minute and lets say DMC is healthty, we have DMC and CP and nothing else so what does Knapp have to work with? DHB and Moore can not be counted on to catch the football on a regular basis and Meyers is doing OK so we have CP, DMC and Meyers and a weak OL. What could any OC do with this set up? Now throw in our sorry azz defense who can't stop anyone so the offense is always playing from behind and what is Knapp or Bill Walsh suppose to do to put points on the board? And don't forget our weak azz ST's! So what does DA and Knapp really have to work with to win anything? It is what it is Dick, we suck big time and I can't blame the coaches for this ship wreck. Once we start getting some legit NFL football players the gloves will come off and I'll start holding the coaches accountable.
    I hear you cheap, I agree about talent. I've said before, last year they over-achieved or peak as you will. 8-8 is the best we were ever going to get from our roster, that's why I love the change going on around here. The culture that has been installed around the Raiders has been crushing this organization, now the changes are in place to bring a more NFL culture, the bs is about to be gone! My whole deal with Knapp himself has been the horendous playcalling, and teaching of the ZBS scheme. I stated he playcalling in the previous comment, as for the teaching I will use Briesel as an example. Here is a guy that played great last year for Houston, where Knapp was as well, but he comes here and regresses as a guard? This isn't some in it for the money type of player, he proved it last year with his broken leg. This guy is a worker, but he has played like crap this year? It's not the scheme, he knows the scheme. To me it has to be the teacher and playcaller in Knapp and Pollack, it's really the only thing that makes sense.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapshotartist View Post
    And this is what gets me MHR you have fans here who refuse to hold the players accountable for anything. Every problem is someone else's problem but never the players.
    its called Al Davis (RIP) syndrome...he has these fans so brainwashed on his way of doing things..even though a decade of doing it his way has taken this team into the toilet they are just so used to seeing a scapegoat..someone has to hang and we know it wont be the guys getting beat on the field..we have great playahs get ovah it!!!!

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