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Thread: Why did we go from winners to losers in just one season? why did we start struggling

  1. #46
    cheapshotartist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowRage41 View Post
    I guess the Raiders brass felt like last years team had peaked @ 8-8. The team is in transition and it shows.
    Last years team peaked at 7-4, they then went 1-4 to get to 8-8.
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  2. #47
    red dragon is offline Limited Membership
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    We had major bad luck with our draft picks since 03. Both Grove and Gallery were supposed to be our O-line for the next decade but both turned into busts. Then Fabian Washington Busted, Huff is not even close to being as good as his pick, Russel became the biggest draft bust in modern NFL history, McFadden has had 2 good seasons but is made of glass, DHB still struggles with his hands, and McClain is Russel 2.0. If you want to win, you need to find at least 2 franchise players in the draft, and we have found nothing but fools gold. Some of our later picks have turned into decent starters, but you can't win consistently with just 'decent,' you need a bit of greatness on your team.

    I can't pass blame for this, it could be all on Al, it could be on our scouts, it could be on a witch doctor. All i know is that we NEED to finally have a good draft this season, and to find a guy in the first round who can become the face of this team for the next 15 years, and not another JaMarcus or McClain.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheapshotartist View Post
    Last years team peaked at 7-4, they then went 1-4 to get to 8-8.
    Well said.. and it's even more important to understand the reasons for the sudden fall-off. I've listed reasons in this thread.. but Hue Jackson at the END of last year was no better than Dennis Allen this year or any of our coaches since Gruden at their worst.
    Cable knew how to stay out of the way for the most part but he wasn't exactly progressive.
    When we have coaches who know what they are doing this team will see a dramatic turnaround. I'm really hoping Chuckie comes back because this team plays completely differently with chemistry. As I've said very few players are playing up to their potential for a reason.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    I agree with this to an extent hence the first post I made but good coaching takes precedence.. a good gameplan can hide a QBs shortcomings and by all means we should have a team that is very successful at running the ball. This team doesn't know how to be conservative because they have no confidence... that falls on the coaching. A lot of players aren't playing up to their potential.
    @napoleankaufman #RaiderFam Why do y'all blame the coaches for everything? I mean everything!!! #SMH

    Former player disagrees with your assessment.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sa_dick_steele View Post
    @napoleankaufman #RaiderFam Why do y'all blame the coaches for everything? I mean everything!!! #SMH

    Former player disagrees with your assessment.
    Notice he uses the word 'everything'.. I don't blame the coaches for everything, only what they are responsible for.

    A good coach, to me, (and this team will need a GREAT coach) properly motivates his players. Kaufman is probably looking at specific execution and trying to lend objectivity to the discussion.

    I think the problem is much deeper than what's going on play to play at this point which is why I don't even bother to watch the games anymore.

    "The battle is won before it is ever fought." - Sun Tzu

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    Notice he uses the word 'everything'.. I don't blame the coaches for everything, only what they are responsible for.

    A good coach, to me, (and this team will need a GREAT coach) properly motivates his players. Kaufman is probably looking at specific execution and trying to lend objectivity to the discussion.

    I think the problem is much deeper than what's going on play to play at this point which is why I don't even bother to watch the games anymore.

    "The battle is won before it is ever fought." - Sun Tzu
    Kaufman has been with this team this year and around DA.

    Napoleon Kaufman rejoins Oakland Raiders as team chaplain - NFL.com

    This season has been terrible because the FO has finally ripped off the band-aides that have plagued this team for wayyyyyyy tooooooo long. The easiest person to blame is DA, but to get a fair assessment of what kind of coach he really is we won't get it this year. With players on this team such as McClain with the "me before team" attitude it's going to be hard to judge. Next year will give us much more to go off of.
    coRaider and JUSTWINBABY9111 like this.

  7. #52
    Skvllz is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by sa_dick_steele View Post
    Kaufman has been with this team this year and around DA.

    Napoleon Kaufman rejoins Oakland Raiders as team chaplain - NFL.com

    This season has been terrible because the FO has finally ripped off the band-aides that have plagued this team for wayyyyyyy tooooooo long. The easiest person to blame is DA, but to get a fair assessment of what kind of coach he really is we won't get it this year. With players on this team such as McClain with the "me before team" attitude it's going to be hard to judge. Next year will give us much more to go off of.
    McClain is not the only one suffering from this attitude. But i think you fail to understand why these attitudes are taking place in the first place. The coaches can't relate, connect, to motivate, properly prepare their players and are not putting them in the best position to succeed... and I'm not blaming DA.. i'm blaming many more coaches/ppl than just DA. I didn't mention his name up until now for a reason. McClain is worse than most but I can say with almost certainty, if given a different environment, his condition wouldn't be exasperated.
    This teams successes or failures have never revolved around just one person.

  8. #53
    BVJ
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    8-8 is not winning ****. It is scraping by. Raiders are perennial losers at this point. Mcz has a **** ton if work to do to right the ship. Ask one of these old timers what Raiders used to represent when they were winning: when soul patrol was wrecking fools not like this soft ass team that mistakenly calls themselves the Raiders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    McClain is not the only one suffering from this attitude. But i think you fail to understand why these attitudes are taking place in the first place. The coaches can't relate, connect, to motivate, properly prepare their players and are not putting them in the best position to succeed... and I'm not blaming DA.. i'm blaming many more coaches/ppl than just DA. I didn't mention his name up until now for a reason. McClain is worse than most but I can say with almost certainty, if given a different environment, his condition wouldn't be exasperated.
    This teams successes or failures have never revolved around just one person.
    The attitudes have been around for a while, this not a new concept in Oakland and the NFL. Most teams are able to harness those attitudes and they aren't as pronounced with other teams. The Raiders, however were different for a variety of reasons, chief among them they had an owner that sided with them and they always knew that wasn't necessarily a big issue as Davis felt the players were usually right even though that wasn't the case. To suggest that coaches are the reason players have the attitudes they have is somewhat short sided. No one including me is around these coaches and players on a daily basis, yet many fans usually want to point the blame at coaches. The men are supposedly professionals and as such they know what is expected of them on and off the field, they understand the consequences of failing to be accountable. I'm curious why former players that played under Allen in Denver spoke highly of his ability to prepare, his intensity etc. yet he comes to Oakland and suddenly he's in over his head, can't relate or motivate players? This franchise has failed because the inmates still believe they are running the asylum, and the sooner these types of players are removed from the equation the better off the organiztion will be. One cancer in the locker room can undermine the entire direction of the franchise. This year has been a complete disaster and everyone from the top down can be held responsible, but in the end players either make plays or they don't and when you have bad attitudes all the coaching in the world won't make a bit of difference, unless you send messages that those types of attitudes and behaviors will not be tolerated, regardless of your salary, draft position or status on the roster...
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BVJ View Post
    8-8 is not winning ****. It is scraping by. Raiders are perennial losers at this point. Mcz has a **** ton if work to do to right the ship. Ask one of these old timers what Raiders used to represent when they were winning: when soul patrol was wrecking fools not like this soft ass team that mistakenly calls themselves the Raiders.
    how can you sh*t on 8-8.. you should be sh*tting on 3-9.. that little bit of irony aside..

    The past doesn't matter.. i like to focus on the part that got us to 7-4.. or even before that when we were playing inspired consistent football right before Davis passed after a very successful offseason... that's the past I like to focus on but you're welcome to focus on whatever you choose as a fan.

    Let's focus on the future.. If you're willing to be patient for 5 years and you think thats what it takes for a team to start winning more power to you. Enjoy watching the games. I won't.

    I'm not gonna waste my time until I start seeing what I like to see out of a team. Every season I give em a new chance.. but i've literally watched 2 games TOTAL this year.. you think that's a coincidence?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    The attitudes have been around for a while, this not a new concept in Oakland and the NFL. Most teams are able to harness those attitudes and they aren't as pronounced with other teams. The Raiders, however were different for a variety of reasons, chief among them they had an owner that sided with them and they always knew that wasn't necessarily a big issue as Davis felt the players were usually right even though that wasn't the case. To suggest that coaches are the reason players have the attitudes they have is somewhat short sided. No one including me is around these coaches and players on a daily basis, yet many fans usually want to point the blame at coaches. The men are supposedly professionals and as such they know what is expected of them on and off the field, they understand the consequences of failing to be accountable. I'm curious why former players that played under Allen in Denver spoke highly of his ability to prepare, his intensity etc. yet he comes to Oakland and suddenly he's in over his head, can't relate or motivate players? This franchise has failed because the inmates still believe they are running the asylum, and the sooner these types of players are removed from the equation the better off the organiztion will be. One cancer in the locker room can undermine the entire direction of the franchise. This year has been a complete disaster and everyone from the top down can be held responsible, but in the end players either make plays or they don't and when you have bad attitudes all the coaching in the world won't make a bit of difference, unless you send messages that those types of attitudes and behaviors will not be tolerated, regardless of your salary, draft position or status on the roster...
    Davis found a way to properly motivate inspire again right before he passed. And Davis at his best was able to motivate and inspire with the best of them.. even if he was unconventional to people like you. That's all that matters to me.

  12. #57
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    I blame Al. Now I'm not going to say Gruden is the best thing since Vince Lombardi, but the guy had a system and worked with it and did well with it. We should have kept the guy around and Al should have trusted some personnel to Gruden. Al held on way too long. Al had a penchant for undressing a player upon first meeting them, with his health, going out to combines just was not in the cards any more. Late round draft picks just don't get on a plane to team facilities any more. He still had film, reports, but could not take down a player and figure out what they're made of, that's what separated Al from other owners. Al wanted the control, but his health failed him and just couldn't get out on scouting trips any more. When that first started happening, he should have relinquished some personnel decision making. The most recent drag out fight he had was with Kiffin over Jamarcus Russell. Kiffin didn't want him. Davis with just film and combine info wanted him. Kiffin probably met the guy and can feel, he wasn't NFL material. 2nd pick....Calvin Johnson.

    Al was too old, and needed to relinquish some activities and decision making responsibilities, especially the last 10years or so. His scouts knew not to cross Al, or expect a pink slip. Scouts wrote up reports and Al made decisions based on those, as well as what he has seen. The draft kicked our ass. Free agency kicked our ass, you blow cap space on Larry Brown, Javon Walker, etc, busts basically. It probably became common knowledge that you come to Oakland for one last pay day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    McClain is not the only one suffering from this attitude. But i think you fail to understand why these attitudes are taking place in the first place. The coaches can't relate, connect, to motivate, properly prepare their players and are not putting them in the best position to succeed... and I'm not blaming DA.. i'm blaming many more coaches/ppl than just DA. I didn't mention his name up until now for a reason. McClain is worse than most but I can say with almost certainty, if given a different environment, his condition wouldn't be exasperated.
    This teams successes or failures have never revolved around just one person.
    I think it's more of a change in how things are working in Oakland now compared to the past. What we are seeing now is a change in culture around here and some of these players don't like it. This is how a real franchise is ran, it's not like the old days anymore. Everything I've read from the players shows that they do believe in DA except McClain of course, and some changes do need to be made to the coaching side, but there is no need for a complete overhaul in coaches. To do that would bring more damage to the organization, a lot more bad than good.
    coRaider likes this.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skvllz View Post
    Davis found a way to properly motivate inspire again right before he passed. And Davis at his best was able to motivate and inspire with the best of them.. even if he was unconventional to people like you. That's all that matters to me.
    Since when is it the responsibility of the owner to motivate players? Isn't that why you hire coaches? And herein lies the problem with the Oakland Raiders. You have just illustrated a point that many have tried to make over the years. When you have an owner that is the final authority on every matter of business with a franchise you have attitude problems and usually underachieving, because players knew they had the one man in their corner so they didn't have to be accountable! Yes, he was unconventional, but my reasons for disagreeing with Davis had nothing to do with being unconventional, rather failing to hold himself accountable for the failures of the franchise. Oversight/Checks and Balances are necessary in all walks of life otherwise what you see is dysfunction and there was plenty of that over the years.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    Since when is it the responsibility of the owner to motivate players? Isn't that why you hire coaches? And herein lies the problem with the Oakland Raiders. You have just illustrated a point that many have tried to make over the years. When you have an owner that is the final authority on every matter of business with a franchise you have attitude problems and usually underachieving, because players knew they had the one man in their corner so they didn't have to be accountable! Yes, he was unconventional, but my reasons for disagreeing with Davis had nothing to do with being unconventional, rather failing to hold himself accountable for the failures of the franchise. Oversight/Checks and Balances are necessary in all walks of life otherwise what you see is dysfunction and there was plenty of that over the years.
    I'm not undervaluing the importance of the coaches, at times Davis did.. but Hue was a good personnel decision before Davis left us. The power then got to Hue's head. It seems to be a parable even now with what we are witnessing.

    Madden was a motivator, so was Gruden, among others. When this team is winning the COACHES are doing their job even while Davis was around. This Davis vendetta you have is transparent and keeps you from being objective on a game to game, yearly basis with what we are evaluating with the entire core of the coaching staff and player personnel. It takes more than one person to win. This disconnect you speak of is all in your head. You act as if the coaches on the winning Raiders team didn't exist and had no input.. the same goes for the losing teams.

    He made plenty of bad personnel decisions but by all accounts the team was on the right track before he passed. The football was a lot better to watch than this trash we are witnessing now.
    pointi likes this.

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