The players have officially given up on these coaches

**RiedersRaiders** · 12-03-2012, 06:45 AM

I read a lot about how we have lack talent or we do not have "pro bowl" type players at any position. And thats why we are performing as poorly as we are. Here is my question to you...how do you know that? How do you know that this team just haven't decided to quit on these coaches...? D. Moore didn't decide one day to just forget how to catch. Our defense as bad as it looks, didn't make it all through high school, all through college and then either being drafted or signed to an NFL team and forget how to tackle. $hit, my fat sister can put a lickin on me anytime i threaten to take the last of the food...and she's NEVER played football!!! When we had John Marshall as DC R. Mclain was looking like a great pick. Chuck Bres comes in and the defense regresses including Mclain. This year comes with a "defensive minded coach" and Mclain not only regresses again but gets demoted. He then gets kicked out of practice and suspended. Did anyone ever think that maybe Mclain just got fed up with the way this team was headed and just wants OUT?! Look at Steve Wisniewski...he saw the writing on the wall were this team was headed. He bailed with the expanation of "personal reasons" to keep things professional. Its sounds like a douche move but the players seem to be fed up with Allen and his staff and know the only way to show it is by giving up. I give them credit with staying as positive as they have been with the exception of Mclain. So if you think this simply cause of "lack of talent" then prove it...prove to the ones who feel Allen doesn't deserve another year that he's got things moving in the right direction.

**Murphys Law** · 12-03-2012, 06:58 AM

Valid points all around. Or they would be to any rational franchise (or company for that matter). The stench of failure permeates this franchise so bad that maybe those involved from the inside are just so used to it they cannot see it.

Allen has not done one thing with this team that warrants a chance at a second season.

**HITMAN** · 12-03-2012, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by RiedersRaiders

I read a lot about how we have lack talent or we do not have "pro bowl" type players at any position. And thats why we are performing as poorly as we are. Here is my question to you...how do you know that? How do you know that this team just haven't decided to quit on these coaches...? D. Moore didn't decide one day to just forget how to catch. Our defense as bad as it looks, didn't make it all through high school, all through college and then either being drafted or signed to an NFL team and forget how to tackle. $hit, my fat sister can put a lickin on me anytime i threaten to take the last of the food...and she's NEVER played football!!! When we had John Marshall as DC R. Mclain was looking like a great pick. Chuck Bres comes in and the defense regresses including Mclain. This year comes with a "defensive minded coach" and Mclain not only regresses again but gets demoted. He then gets kicked out of practice and suspended. Did anyone ever think that maybe Mclain just got fed up with the way this team was headed and just wants OUT?! Look at Steve Wisniewski...he saw the writing on the wall were this team was headed. He bailed with the expanation of "personal reasons" to keep things professional. Its sounds like a douche move but the players seem to be fed up with Allen and his staff and know the only way to show it is by giving up. I give them credit with staying as positive as they have been with the exception of Mclain. So if you think this simply cause of "lack of talent" then prove it...prove to the ones who feel Allen doesn't deserve another year that he's got things moving in the right direction.

I guess the same can be said in reverse... aside from a punter, a kicker, a long snapper and an aging defensive end who else has proven they are talented individuals? McClain has proven he's not playmaker, certainly not a professional and his off-field behavior suggests he's immature and incapable of being the type of leader he needs to be. When players merely want to collect paychecks and not be held accountable those are players that lack personal pride. There's more than enough blame to go around for this season, but part of the problem with this franchise is guys were never held accountable nor were they held to a higher standard of excellence as players. As for proving it, they prove it every week by failing to execute the simple things that they should already be able to do because they've been doing it most of their lives. You are entitled to your opinion about Allen or whomever, but at the end of the day your opinion matters about as much as anyone else's... If Mark Davis, and Reggie McKenzie feel as you do, then Allen and several others won't be around next season along with several of these so called talented players!

**Pietro** · 12-03-2012, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by RiedersRaiders

I read a lot about how we have lack talent or we do not have "pro bowl" type players at any position. And thats why we are performing as poorly as we are. Here is my question to you...how do you know that? How do you know that this team just haven't decided to quit on these coaches...? D. Moore didn't decide one day to just forget how to catch. Our defense as bad as it looks, didn't make it all through high school, all through college and then either being drafted or signed to an NFL team and forget how to tackle. $hit, my fat sister can put a lickin on me anytime i threaten to take the last of the food...and she's NEVER played football!!! When we had John Marshall as DC R. Mclain was looking like a great pick. Chuck Bres comes in and the defense regresses including Mclain. This year comes with a "defensive minded coach" and Mclain not only regresses again but gets demoted. He then gets kicked out of practice and suspended. Did anyone ever think that maybe Mclain just got fed up with the way this team was headed and just wants OUT?! Look at Steve Wisniewski...he saw the writing on the wall were this team was headed. He bailed with the expanation of "personal reasons" to keep things professional. Its sounds like a douche move but the players seem to be fed up with Allen and his staff and know the only way to show it is by giving up. I give them credit with staying as positive as they have been with the exception of Mclain. So if you think this simply cause of "lack of talent" then prove it...prove to the ones who feel Allen doesn't deserve another year that he's got things moving in the right direction.

Good point.

There are many that have given Reggie Mckenzie and Dennis Allen a free pass. Benching Mcclane was one thing. Benching Moore is another. I agree with your assessment the coaches have lost the team. No question. One now has to wonder if the injuries are a convenient way of not risking further injury and not playing since some may feel they won't be here next year ala Seymore.

I was in DA's corner until yesterday. I thought he was losing the team and yesterday's performance solidified it for me. The players have not adapted to the system on offense or defense. They don't appear comfortable. They certainly are not having fun and the results speak for themselves. Unhappy players do not perform.

I thought DA could be salvaged by axing Knapp and Tarver who are both offensive and defensive coordinators. However, the wounds appear to be much deeper. This may not be salvageable.

You can't get rid of 20-30 players. You can get rid of 3-4 coaches. Although, the constant coaching carousel is part of the reason for failures of the franchise, in this case, the rapid fall and performance may require drastic measures.

What was once thought to be an up and coming offense with potential rising stars has turned into a disaster. You can't replace Palmer, DHB, Mcfadden, Ford and Moore. Of course, some will say, why not? They are not performing.

Thing is, you don't stop there. Nothing is working. The offensive line play has been poor as well. Therefore, you need to replace 3 more linemen. We don't have a blocking TE either. That's that's 9 of ll starters and we have not talked about who needs replacing on defense.

These guys are professional athletes and not different than professionals in any profession. Give them the right tools and skills to do the job and they should succeed. Maynot win a SB. However, at least compete.

These guys are not competing. They appear to have given up. They do not believe in the system. They do not believe in the coaches.

There are only 4 games left to save jobs. Whose?

**jpumphrey** · 12-03-2012, 07:03 AM

Vince Lombardi won't attempt to coach this team with the lack of depth, talent, and heart(minus a select few players)

**twoutrally** · 12-03-2012, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by jpumphrey

Vince Lombardi won't attempt to coach this team with the lack of depth, talent, and heart(minus a select few players)

Lombardi would have THIS team like Hue Jackson did in the playoff picture!

**speedkills** · 12-03-2012, 07:13 AM

I do not think they have lost the team, they are just no good. What the hell is wrong with benching players!!!! Moore has been terrible the last 3-4 weeks I think he has 4 catches the past three weeks on like 17 attempts . Bartell was awful out there. Play well or be benched.

You can not win with this type of defense I will have more on this in another thread!

**dmauke** · 12-03-2012, 07:14 AM

You want a coach who will hold players accountable, and give the team discipline... except when he benches a favorite.

I can tell you why I don't think players have given up on the coaches; They've sucked all year long, and players want to keep their jobs. If anything a lot of players have gone into business for themselves. It's not merely a lack of talent(although on defense it mostly is), it's the wrong talent as well.

It's obvious that Knapp isn't getting the job done on offense, but nether is Carson Palmer. Palmer has been terrible on third downs, in the Red zone, and at the end of halves... thats where QB's make their money, not between the 20's. Here's a guy who's getting a pass because he's throwing for tons of yards, but he's not really helping the team win games.

The db's are terrible, and there is barely any pursuit or pass rush, and this is mostly due to the talent level. On offense, there is no excuse for an O-line to play an entire season with very limited injuries and lineup changes, and not have developed any chemistry.

No, the problem isn't the players quitting on the coaches, the problem is that they just suck donkey balls.

**twoutrally** · 12-03-2012, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by speedkills

I do not think they have lost the team, they are just no good. What the hell is wrong with benching players!!!! Moore has been terrible the last 3-4 weeks I think he has 4 catches the past three weeks on like 17 attempts . Bartell was awful out there. Play well or be benched.

You can not win with this type of defense I will have more on this in another thread!

Blaming the player's is a cop out for this really unprepared, poorly coached team.

**speedkills** · 12-03-2012, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by dmauke

You want a coach who will hold players accountable, and give the team discipline... except when he benches a favorite.

I can tell you why I don't think players have given up on the coaches; They've sucked all year long, and players want to keep their jobs. If anything a lot of players have gone into business for themselves. It's not merely a lack of talent(although on defense it mostly is), it's the wrong talent as well.

It's obvious that Knapp isn't getting the job done on offense, but nether is Carson Palmer. Palmer has been terrible on third downs, in the Red zone, and at the end of halves... thats where QB's make their money, not between the 20's. Here's a guy who's getting a pass because he's throwing for tons of yards, but he's not really helping the team win games.

The db's are terrible, and there is barely any pursuit or pass rush, and this is mostly due to the talent level. On offense, there is no excuse for an O-line to play an entire season with very limited injuries and lineup changes, and not have developed any chemistry.

No, the problem isn't the players quitting on the coaches, the problem is that they just suck donkey balls.

you do realize the raiders at one poin tin the season scored at the end of halves in 8 straight games which was hte longest streak in the NFL! LOL!

**speedkills** · 12-03-2012, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by twoutrally

Blaming the player's is a cop out for this really unprepared, poorly coached team.

meh Bartel and Moore are just no good, Moore running wrong routes and dropping passes is not coaching it's lack of focus. Look at streater he was playing horrible a few weeks back he got benched for a few weeks and looked great yesterday a benching can let you get your head together.

To me the schemes do not look unprepared there is just a real lack of talent out there on the field.

**heavyD** · 12-03-2012, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by RiedersRaiders

I read a lot about how we have lack talent or we do not have "pro bowl" type players at any position. And thats why we are performing as poorly as we are. Here is my question to you...how do you know that? How do you know that this team just haven't decided to quit on these coaches...? D. Moore didn't decide one day to just forget how to catch. Our defense as bad as it looks, didn't make it all through high school, all through college and then either being drafted or signed to an NFL team and forget how to tackle. $hit, my fat sister can put a lickin on me anytime i threaten to take the last of the food...and she's NEVER played football!!! When we had John Marshall as DC R. Mclain was looking like a great pick. Chuck Bres comes in and the defense regresses including Mclain. This year comes with a "defensive minded coach" and Mclain not only regresses again but gets demoted. He then gets kicked out of practice and suspended. Did anyone ever think that maybe Mclain just got fed up with the way this team was headed and just wants OUT?! Look at Steve Wisniewski...he saw the writing on the wall were this team was headed. He bailed with the expanation of "personal reasons" to keep things professional. Its sounds like a douche move but the players seem to be fed up with Allen and his staff and know the only way to show it is by giving up. I give them credit with staying as positive as they have been with the exception of Mclain. So if you think this simply cause of "lack of talent" then prove it...prove to the ones who feel Allen doesn't deserve another year that he's got things moving in the right direction.

Son,

I suggest you and others that feel this way become insiders so you can find out what's really going on behind closed doors. The lack of leadership from the teams supposed leaders is disgusting.

**RiedersRaiders** · 12-03-2012, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by speedkills

I do not think they have lost the team, they are just no good. What the hell is wrong with benching players!!!! Moore has been terrible the last 3-4 weeks I think he has 4 catches the past three weeks on like 17 attempts . Bartell was awful out there. Play well or be benched.

You can not win with this type of defense I will have more on this in another thread!

There is nothing wrong with benching players. But you sort proved my point with Moore playing terrible the 3-4 weeks. When did this little losing streak with being blown put start...? 4 weeks ago? And its not just Moore. Its lack of effort and/or lack of caring from almost everyone. Players that believe in their coaches will play their hearts out....i.e. look at the Colts this year, a few weeks back when Chuck Pagano made his first appearance at a game. CHUCK STRONG. I do not see a DENNIS STRONG feel at allllllllllllllllllllllll.

**dmauke** · 12-03-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by speedkills

you do realize the raiders at one poin tin the season scored at the end of halves in 8 straight games which was hte longest streak in the NFL! LOL!

Eliminate the garbage time scores and field goals.

**RiedersRaiders** · 12-03-2012, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by heavyD

Son,

I suggest you and others that feel this way become insiders so you can find out what's really going on behind closed doors. The lack of leadership from the teams supposed leaders is disgusting.

Sorry i was giving a different OPINION to countering peoples OPINION that we suck because we no talent. Posters on here saying that players "have no talent" is disgusting too...why dont you go respond to them SON. Piss off.