Regardless of what happens today, I'm not ready to let Allen go

**leafs43** · 12-02-2012, 10:09 AM

Allen had no draft picks and is playing with a roster that is in complete upheaval.

A lot of us knew this season was lost before the first game.

I have my reservations about Allen not being passionate enough, but he was dealt a sh!t hand.

**RaiderDuck** · 12-02-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by leafs43

Allen had no draft picks and is playing with a roster that is in complete upheaval.

A lot of us knew this season was lost before the first game.

I have my reservations about Allen not being passionate enough, but he was dealt a sh!t hand.

Agreed. All that would be gained by canning him is showing all prospective coaches that we won't give you any time to rebuild. And we could then forget about getting any qualified candidates in here, EVER.

**raider_kin62** · 12-02-2012, 10:27 AM

It's going to take a couple years, but Reggie will stock this team with professional, mature, team first, self starters. Allen is not going to have to get in anyone's face or scream or be rah rah in order to get them going. They, and the team leaders will take care of that. That's why this year is so bad, too many cancers on the team. Next year most or all of them will be gone.

**twoutrally** · 12-02-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by RaiderDuck

Originally Posted by leafs43

Allen had no draft picks and is playing with a roster that is in complete upheaval.

A lot of us knew this season was lost before the first game.

I have my reservations about Allen not being passionate enough, but he was dealt a sh!t hand.

Agreed. All that would be gained by canning him is showing all prospective coaches that we won't give you any time to rebuild. And we could then forget about getting any qualified candidates in here, EVER.

Or 3 wins is not getting the job done find someone better.

**Jmac89** · 12-02-2012, 10:54 AM

It's hard to win in this league as a coach when you don't have enough talent on your roster.

**twoutrally** · 12-02-2012, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jmac89

It's hard to win in this league as a coach when you don't have enough talent on your roster.

Its hard to win in the NFL with clueless coaches.

**nastynice** · 12-02-2012, 11:15 AM

We have plenty of talent on this team. That's a bs excuse. Look at our o line last year vs this year. Look at our rb's last year vs this year. Look at our wr last year vs this year. Look at our d line last year vs this year. Look at our lb last year vs this year. Look at our special teams last year vs this year. The only noticeable drop in talent from 2011 to 2012 is the corners. That's it.

I still think Allen should get til the end of next year. The problem is right now we are in a situation where the coaching philosophy and the player strengths are not on the same page. That doesn't make it all one side or the other's fault, its just the reality of the situation. We are rebuilding, period.

I think McKenzie has made some good moves and some bad ones. One of the biggest bad moves on his part, imo, is him having Allen pick ALL his assistant coaches. There was no need to get rid of Wauffle. There was no need to get rid of Wiz Sr. I think he put too much on Allen's plate by going that route. At this point, its stupid to scrap this project, we've started it and we're dealing with the worst part of it. It makes no sense to fire the head coach at this point. At this point, we might as well let it keep playing out and see what happens.

So all in all, I agree with the op. But one thing is, we NEED to be competitive. When a team is in a situation like ours, its not just about the wins and losses. How you lose is important. These last 4 weeks have been unacceptable no matter how you try to slice it. They've been absolute blow outs. Look at the browns they are 3-8 just like us, but they have been competitive. We need to at least get to that level in this last quarter of the season. As long as we do, and I am confident we will, then yes, Allen should definitely stay, even if we go 3-13.

**allengs** · 12-02-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by leafs43

Allen had no draft picks and is playing with a roster that is in complete upheaval.

A lot of us knew this season was lost before the first game.

I have my reservations about Allen not being passionate enough, but he was dealt a sh!t hand.

Excuses, More Excuses. Nerdy Dennis Allen & His terrible Staff has lost the Team. Team cannot even Complete against the NFL Bottom Feeders. No Raider Fan in his right mind will want to continue accepting unwatchful Garbage. Mark Davis is going to Lose lots of $$$$$$$$ if he keep DA as Coach. DA & Assist Coaches is the Worst in NFL. Take a Peek At the Whiner vs Ram game. Fisher is a respectful Defense Coach..look how great his defense is playing. DA cannot even carry Fisher's Boot Strap. I say Good Riddance to DA. Raiders need a Real Head Coach, Not a Nerdy Pretender.

**jrhone** · 12-02-2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by RaiderDuck

Agreed. All that would be gained by canning him is showing all prospective coaches that we won't give you any time to rebuild. And we could then forget about getting any qualified candidates in here, EVER.

All that would be gained is showing the league that you have to not REGRESS the team and CHANGE the things that worked just for the sake of your mythical "system" thats never been proven or tried. Zone blocking vs Power blocking. Yes change the ONE thing that was really good for us last year..the running game..GENIUS.

DA knew what he had when he took the job. PERIOD. His 2 predecessors did better with his same level of talent. so...he must not be as good.

Yeah lets keep a mediocre coach just so the league likes us more and we are all happy and friendly to people who dont excel at their jobs. Lets stop keeping stats, stop keeping score as well...thats so mean when someone has to lose.

If your boss was fired for not doing his job, and they asked you to take the job but dont do WORSE than him...you either take the job with a plan...and it better be a good one or you get fired. Think they wont find a better replacement? You are crazy. This is the NFL. Coaches will not turn down the job especially since they have seen the mistakes of this coach...It would be hard NOT to get better than this coaching staff.

**LutaLivre** · 12-02-2012, 12:12 PM

Sorry but anyone who thinks we have enough "talent" on this team to be a competitor is delusional. A lot of our starters that we have currently on this roster would be at BEST backups or potentially not even be playing in the NFL right now.

We as fans have no idea what DA is like and all we can do is speculate and thats a fact, period. We need to give DA at least another year to see what he's capable of as a head coach especially with RM hopefully bringing in true professional players on this team and not overpaid scrubs who just plain suck to begin with or who are WAY past their prime already....

**smucky** · 12-02-2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by nastynice

There was no need to get rid of Wauffle. There was no need to get rid of Wiz Sr.

All good points, except Wiz Sr. quit. I don't think it had much to do with Allen. But what do I know.

**jrhone** · 12-02-2012, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by LutaLivre

Sorry but anyone who thinks we have enough "talent" on this team to be a competitor is delusional. A lot of our starters that we have currently on this roster would be at BEST backups or potentially not even be playing in the NFL right now.

We as fans have no idea what DA is like and all we can do is speculate and thats a fact, period. We need to give DA at least another year to see what he's capable of as a head coach especially with RM hopefully bringing in true professional players on this team and not overpaid scrubs who just plain suck to begin with or who are WAY past their prime already....

So Tom Cable and Hue Jackson must be Vince Lombardis and John Maddens because they did more with this same "talent". The raiders had the top 6 offense last year...isnt that talent? What are they now?

**tatalalicious** · 12-02-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by raider_kin62

It's going to take a couple years, but Reggie will stock this team with professional, mature, team first, self starters. Allen is not going to have to get in anyone's face or scream or be rah rah in order to get them going. They, and the team leaders will take care of that. That's why this year is so bad, too many cancers on the team. Next year most or all of them will be gone.

Too many fans on this board place player talent above good coaching. Been a fan of this team for over 24 years, I have seen very talented players come and go but one thing I have rarely seen over the years (apart from the Gruden years) is rock solid quality coaching. If DA and his staff were as good as some on this board think they are, despite the miserable product we have seen on the field week after week, you would see it in the way the team plays on Sundays. Its as if DA and his staff were hired to just sit on the sidelines waiting till year 2 or 3 before they let everyone see the secret genius of their plans.

**LutaLivre** · 12-02-2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by jrhone

So Tom Cable and Hue Jackson must be Vince Lombardis and John Maddens because they did more with this same "talent". The raiders had the top 6 offense last year...isnt that talent? What are they now?

If I'm not mistaken there are about 26 players that are no longer here from the previous rosters. I suppose one could argue that we MIGHT have had enough talent to get to 8-8 back to back seasons but thats about it and that's not saying much. Even last year going back to last years players we lost every game in the final stretch of the season when it counted most.

This roster is in desperate need of a total makeover with real players.

**RaiderDuck** · 12-02-2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by LutaLivre

Sorry but anyone who thinks we have enough "talent" on this team to be a competitor is delusional. A lot of our starters that we have currently on this roster would be at BEST backups or potentially not even be playing in the NFL right now..

Exactly. Look at our undisputed best player in the secondary last year, Stanford Routt: cut by the lowly Chiefs after half a season because he sucked. More than half the guys Reggie dumped are currently out of football, which means they're not good enough for ANY NFL team.

Meanwhile, for our starters this week: On the offense, Carlisle, Barnes, Schmitt and Myers are not legitimate NFL starters, and Reece is not a starter where he'll be playing this week (RB). On defense, nobody would be starting for a decent NFL team right now except Wheeler, Branch, maybe Huff (at FS) and maybe Houston. That's the team we've stuck DA with, because that's the mess Reggie was left with. They should be able to dig out of this mess, but they need time: at least one more season for DA and at least three more for Reggie before we can make ANY kind of determination.