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Thread: SIAP: Chris Kluwe on Ray Guy not being in the HOF. Also mentions Shane...

  1. #1
    ecnirp is offline Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
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    SIAP: Chris Kluwe on Ray Guy not being in the HOF. Also mentions Shane...

    Here is the original article link.
    An NFL Punter To Hall Of Fame Voters: Ray Guy Was Great At His Job. You Suck At Yours.

    Here is his response to Peter King
    "Kluwe's response to my response:
    The reason I wrote my open letter to the Hall of Fame committee in the way that I did was twofold:
    a) Measured appeals to reason haven't worked. The simple fact that Ray Guy (or any other punter) is not in the Hall of Fame is testament to that. People have tried asking nicely for almost 20 years now and sooner or later, Mr. Guy is going to die. I'm tired of asking nicely to have an integral part of the game of football recognized on the same level as everyone else. You've all had your chance to respond to "nice."
    b) It amused me. As players, we get excoriated in the sports media every week when we mess up. We're told we're terrible, that we should be replaced, that we've let everyone down, that our replacements are on the way, that we should just quit now, et cetera et cetera. Well guess what? The sports media are the ones screwing up here. Your utter refusal to acknowledge the fact that specialists are just as much a part of the game as anyone else is on par with me hitting a 20-yard punt (which I've done and been ripped for), or a quarterback throwing multiple interceptions in a game, or a linebacker blowing multiple coverages -- in short, gentlemen, the shoe is on the other foot.
    You all may have the best of intentions (I know that we never set out to play poorly) but the simple fact remains that you've failed to get the job done. You suck. You're terrible. You should be replaced, you've let everyone down, and you should quit now. The only ones keeping specialists out of the Hall of Fame are the voters, and you've consistently voted, year in and year out, to perpetuate the idea that specialists just don't matter.
    As far as Ray's stats, I can personally assure you that gross average is quite possibly the worst way to judge punting in the world. Coaches ask punters to sacrifice their numbers to help coverage all the time, and we do it, because THIS IS A TEAM GAME. No offense to Shane Lechler; he's a great guy and has a hell of a leg, but he's had the luxury of playing on a team whose sole drafting criteria was how fast you can run a 40-yard dash. Do you know what that translates to? Really good coverage guys on your special teams which lets you crush the ball down the middle of the field. Of course he has great numbers! He has a cannon for a leg, and a team designed to let him use it. Most of us aren't that lucky.
    Sadly, like Ray said in his interview, those who haven't punted just don't get it. They don't understand giving yourself up for the good of the team. They don't understand prioritizing hangtime over distance. They don't understand that stats cannot tell the story, because the stats aren't designed to tell the story. Where is the stat for hangtime? Where is the stat for location of the kick? Where is the stat for how much field you had to work with? Hell, the NFL didn't start keeping stats on punts out of bounds until the mid-80s, and you're going to tell me that his stats aren't good enough for the Hall of Fame? WHAT stats? Why does Ray Guy belong in the Hall of Fame? Because he changed how his position was perceived. He changed the dynamic of the game. He was an extraordinary player, in a league of extraordinary players, and everyone knows it. Everyone, apparently, except for those "in charge."
    As I said in my earlier p.s., there's a very simple fix for this. Change the selection criteria to 0-1 specialists, 2-5 offensive players, 2-5 defensive players, and 0-1 administrators, with a majority (or hell, even supermajority) vote required. You have the power. No one's stopping you."

  2. #2
    Silver Sabbath is offline Banned
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    Shane is GREAT at cashing checks, gaining weight and complaining about Tom Cable being fired. Not so going at directional kicking or picking opponents inside their 15. I think this article is dead on.
    BigPrimo likes this.

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    Carboran is offline Limited Membership
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    Kluwe is awesome. I really like that guy. His letter on gay marriage was equally well thought out

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    HBD's Avatar
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    The BEST example of how Specialists can effect a game is John Condo sustaining a concussion on MNF vs the Dolts.
    Try on tell us how we lose that game if Condo did not get knocked out ??


    the article also mentions Shane benefits from the team of speedsters around him .... lets not forget the dynamic of Seabass smashing FGs from distances that would cause other punters to pop one up.

    Ray Guy, should get a publicist.
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    Hats off to Kluwe, he nailed it like a Ray Guy punt. You know he scored a direct hit by the hurt and defensive reactions from guys like Peter King and Dan Pompei...
    "He's relentless, shoot him in the head is the only way to stop him. If Howie's alive and still kicking he's coming."

    -HOF guard John Hannah

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    Jzero's Avatar
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    I do find it interesting that in the article that the link leads to, it says that Ray Guy never had a punt returned for a touchdown. According to Pro-Football reference . com, there were three of his punts returned for a TD.

    Ray still belongs in the HOF

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    Ray Guy is not in the HOF because he was a punter drafted in the first round by Al Davis. By puitting him in, they would be endorsing Al and that was not going to happen while he was alive. Maybe he gets in now that Al is dead. It might be too late though.
    BigPrimo likes this.
    "The Media hated Davis because he kept his mouth shut when it counted and didn't bend over to their tactics. Most NFL owners hated Davis because he was a 'them', having worked his way up, and also because he had no problem hiring minorities when no one else would. You can only have so many people saying bad things about you before the sheep believe it...And now, the sheep don't even know why they hate the Raiders, it's just always been that way..." - Sir Pig

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    LKNRaiderFan's Avatar
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    Bias definitely exists. Guy, Stabler, Branch... all would be in the HOF already if they were Cowboys or Steelers

    I won't have anything to do with the HOF and more. I told them point blank to take me off their email list, etc., until they did the right thing and stopped the anti-Raider crap. It's a shame that some of those folks from the 70's may end up being dead before they get their deserved honors.
    ecnirp and reapersgt like this.

  9. #9
    ecnirp is offline Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKNRaiderFan View Post
    It's a shame that some of those folks from the 70's may end up being dead before they get their deserved honors.
    True. Quite sad really.

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    Sea Of Hands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKNRaiderFan View Post
    Bias definitely exists. Guy, Stabler, Branch... all would be in the HOF already if they were Cowboys or Steelers

    I won't have anything to do with the HOF and more. I told them point blank to take me off their email list, etc., until they did the right thing and stopped the anti-Raider crap. It's a shame that some of those folks from the 70's may end up being dead before they get their deserved honors.
    Agreed. Fvck those sick bastards on the committee. Just cause Al was SOB who everyone loved to hate dosen't mean you have to take it out on his players. Guy was the original great punter, Stabler greater than Griese, Branch greater than Swann or Stallworth. WTF gives...
    "The Media hated Davis because he kept his mouth shut when it counted and didn't bend over to their tactics. Most NFL owners hated Davis because he was a 'them', having worked his way up, and also because he had no problem hiring minorities when no one else would. You can only have so many people saying bad things about you before the sheep believe it...And now, the sheep don't even know why they hate the Raiders, it's just always been that way..." - Sir Pig

  11. #11
    ecnirp is offline Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Of Hands View Post
    Agreed. Fvck those sick bastards on the committee. Just cause Al was SOB who everyone loved to hate dosen't mean you have to take it out on his players. Guy was the original great punter, Stabler greater than Griese, Branch greater than Swann or Stallworth. WTF gives...

    How Griese is in the HOF and Stabler is not is beyond me...

    Hate to say it, but what if the Raiders would have won the Super Bowl the year the "Immaculate Deception" happened?

    How that changed so many legacies.

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