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Thread: Coaching Grade F

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    Don't you think these are all questions the current management should have asked themselves at the end of last season?

    You want to fire Hue? who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our ST coach, who takes over and can do a better job. you want to fire our Oline coach, who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our WR coach, who takes over and can do a better job.

    You want to cut corners or other positions like dvd and chekwa? You really think the free agents they'll pick up off the street are better? You want to cut corners and or other positions like Satelle and hire Brisiel for $20,000,000? You really think this free agent off the street will make our Oline better?

    My point is, before you make a knee jerk wholesale change, you have to think of the future. The last two years where the begining of implementing a system. The last two years is what I call a foundation being built. Because Although its been 7 years (not 10) of losing we had 2 years of culture change and we went from losing to avg play. This was the year, 2012, that we were supposed to be winning. The idea of implementing a system and then winning in 1 to 2 years was already in place. That is why the fans are so upset because <b>we are starting over. 1. more. time.</b>

    That said, I like Dennis. it is what it is. We have him now. Let it play out.
    Your on point as I see it about finding better replacements before firings.
    Where I disagree is in thinking Hue would of done any better with the cap mess we had....
    The window of opportunity to win was last year, this was a year we had to cut back, rather than further mortgage the future.
    Not wanting to get into the who sucks more discussion, I encourage you to look to the future at whom the better replacements are...Far more interesting than rehashing last year, the second half of which was a dismal failure.....A season I can't forget fast enough......

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL 9000 View Post
    Coach Allen not making ‘wholesale’ changes; Goethel out for season - Inside the Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of Bay Area News Group

    "Coaching

    The Raiders secondary looked as if it had never played together before as Flacco passed at will. The Raiders were fooled by a Ravens fake field-goal attempt that resulted in a 7-yard touchdown run by holder Sam Koch. Coming into a difficult road venue, the Raiders didn’t have the look of a team that was prepared to play, and coach Dennis Allen said the responsibility lies with him.

    Grade: F"
    I give Coach Allen a Big F. Disgusting! Very Disappointing. The Raiders is a Poorly Coached Team. Only the Blind can't See that Allen is way over His Head. Reggie Suck for Hiring this Mess.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    Don't you think these are all questions the current management should have asked themselves at the end of last season?

    You want to fire Hue? who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our ST coach, who takes over and can do a better job. you want to fire our Oline coach, who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our WR coach, who takes over and can do a better job.

    You want to cut corners or other positions like dvd and chekwa? You really think the free agents they'll pick up off the street are better? You want to cut corners and or other positions like Satelle and hire Brisiel for $20,000,000? You really think this free agent off the street will make our Oline better?

    My point is, before you make a knee jerk wholesale change, you have to think of the future. The last two years where the begining of implementing a system. The last two years is what I call a foundation being built. Because Although its been 7 years (not 10) of losing we had 2 years of culture change and we went from losing to avg play. This was the year, 2012, that we were supposed to be winning. The idea of implementing a system and then winning in 1 to 2 years was already in place. That is why the fans are so upset because <b>we are starting over. 1. more. time.</b>

    That said, I like Dennis. it is what it is. We have him now. Let it play out.
    Hue had to go... whether it was Davis' decision or not as reported, Hue's ego got him axed. When you start over you really have to start over.

    dvd and checkwa are not any better than what we have on the roster now, not even close. DVD didnt even start at the U, so yes, these corners are better although not by much. Then again, they are all on one year deals so we may see a new batch next year. Satele? There were multiple threads last year about how his lack of size got him killed and how bad he was the past couple years. He is far from an upgrade and far from being worth the 3.5 million he's making.

    We are starting over one more time? This is the first time we have started over. Al's philosophy was to reload, never rebuild and now it has us in this cap mess with a bunch of players who run fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by AL 9000 View Post
    BOOM! Roasted...
    UMMMM no... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by raiderrod View Post
    Who are you quoting?
    I was thinking the same... self quote?
    Last edited by agular9; 11-15-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    Don't you think these are all questions the current management should have asked themselves at the end of last season?

    You want to fire Hue? who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our ST coach, who takes over and can do a better job. you want to fire our Oline coach, who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our WR coach, who takes over and can do a better job.

    You want to cut corners or other positions like dvd and chekwa? You really think the free agents they'll pick up off the street are better? You want to cut corners and or other positions like Satelle and hire Brisiel for $20,000,000? You really think this free agent off the street will make our Oline better?

    My point is, before you make a knee jerk wholesale change, you have to think of the future. The last two years where the begining of implementing a system. The last two years is what I call a foundation being built. Because Although its been 7 years (not 10) of losing we had 2 years of culture change and we went from losing to avg play. This was the year, 2012, that we were supposed to be winning. The idea of rong 1. more. time.</b>

    That said, I like Dennis. it is what it is. We have him now. Let it play out.
    Interesting take and I agree on some of what you are saying, where I respectfully disagree is starting over 1 more time. The last 10 years the Raiders were never starting over because they never got started. Davis would pull the plug, never really letting anything get established. I would say for the first time in a decade yes they are finally trying to lay a foundation that will hopefully be successful in the near future. This was no easy fix or solution for McKenzie. He had some hard decisions to make and while I get where you and everyone that disagrees with how it was done are coming from it was inevitable, and anyone that actually believed McKenzie was going to remain status quo was wrong. It's always easier to sit at a PC and make judgments about what we see on the field every Sunday, but none of us knows what is happening behind the scenes. Has it been an epic failure? unfortunately, but as you said, they have who they have and all we can do is see how it plays out. It's frustrating for everyone, but there's not much we can do at the end of the day... Last years 8-8 record is also a bit misleading, and I say this because the team did lose 6 of its last 10 games. There's always a lot of speculation about what might have been, but the reaility is they folded regardless of the circumstances.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderrod View Post
    Who are you quoting?
    it was on yahoo sports the last couple days. a giant write up about how pathetic we are...I agreed with 90% of it. They did give the rush defense a B, I disagreed because if there is no reason to run the ball should you really get credit for that?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by agular9 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    Don't you think these are all questions the current management should have asked themselves at the end of last season?

    You want to fire Hue? who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our ST coach, who takes over and can do a better job. you want to fire our Oline coach, who takes over and can do a better job. You want to fire our WR coach, who takes over and can do a better job.

    You want to cut corners or other positions like dvd and chekwa? You really think the free agents they'll pick up off the street are better? You want to cut corners and or other positions like Satelle and hire Brisiel for $20,000,000? You really think this free agent off the street will make our Oline better?

    My point is, before you make a knee jerk wholesale change, you have to think of the future. The last two years where the begining of implementing a system. The last two years is what I call a foundation being built. Because Although its been 7 years (not 10) of losing we had 2 years of culture change and we went from losing to avg play. This was the year, 2012, that we were supposed to be winning. The idea of implementing a system and then winning in 1 to 2 years was already in place. That is why the fans are so upset because <b>we are starting over. 1. more. time.</b>

    That said, I like Dennis. it is what it is. We have him now. Let it play out.
    Hue had to go... whether it was Davis' decision or not as reported, Hue's ego got him axed. When you start over you really have to start over.

    dvd and checkwa are not any better than what we have on the roster now, not even close. DVD didnt even start at the U, so yes, these corners are better although not by much. Then again, they are all on one year deals so we may see a new batch next year. Satele? There were multiple threads last year about how his lack of size got him killed and how bad he was the past couple years. He is far from an upgrade and far from being worth the 3.5 million he's making.

    We are starting over one more time? This is the first time we have started over. Al's philosophy was to rebuild, never rebuild and now it has us in this cap mess with a bunch of players who run fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by AL 9000 View Post
    BOOM! Roasted...
    UMMMM no... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by raiderrod View Post
    Who are you quoting?
    I was thinking the same... self quote?
    Keep telling yourself that. If it makes you feel better, then by all means, knock yourself out. btw that quote came from the article which I provided a link for directly above it. Maybe read it?! A little effort never hurt anyone.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidermofojeff View Post
    Your on point as I see it about finding better replacements before firings.
    Where I disagree is in thinking Hue would of done any better with the cap mess we had....
    The window of opportunity to win was last year, this was a year we had to cut back, rather than further mortgage the future.
    Not wanting to get into the who sucks more discussion, I encourage you to look to the future at whom the better replacements are...Far more interesting than rehashing last year, the second half of which was a dismal failure.....A season I can't forget fast enough......
    I agree. Hue had to leave. I thought he was an excellent play caller. Probably one of the best in the game and seeing how our team is playing now there is little evidence that shows otherwise. But, he did himself in. As much as I like Palmer that was the trade that ended him.

    Id have to disagree that last year was the year to win.... that is if the Palmer trade never happened. See what so many people here don't want to accept is that there was no cap mess before the Palmer trade. Regardless of how old or overpaid the fans thought we were at 2 DT positions and 1 corner position the cap was fine and we had enough to sign who we needed, bush, whimbly (although many like to point out how poorly hes doing now he excelled with us) etc. AND we could have signed them to at least 3 years.
    Another reason to believe that last year was the start of something instead of the end of something was simply that it was not only Hues 1st year but many of our assistant coaches. We had Wiley, Wiz, Rod, and many others. <b>All first year coaches with the raiders and all great great football minds and all great teachers.</b> Again, one just needs to look at our season and how the players are performing in every aspect of the game. The evidence is clear.

    But, non of it mattered because of the HuePalmer trade.

    As I stated before though. I am with Reggie and Dennis and do look towards the future. But im also not blind to the mistakes of the current regime nor will I make any type of excuse for them. Now, Ill be the first to tell you I let Al Davis slide a lot....A Lot. But thats because I was a fan. He is the reason I started following football/Raiders. Studying the history of the NFL, Al Davis, The Raiders, growing up in Los Angeles in a predominantly Jewish community and also being a person of color myself, this man represented the attitude and philosophy you needed to survive during tumultuous years of the 80s and 90s, my childhood and early teen years. He had my respect and during the senile years I was forgiving. But "respect" is the key phrase. I am excited about Reggie and Dennis being here long term but its going to take more then a season of losing for me to turn a blind eye for things they should have thought more thoroughly. <b>Davis has my respect Reggie and Dennis need to earn it.</b> Davis brought 4 championships (1 afl, 3 NFL), 15 divisional championships, 21 playoff appearances and, my favorite, a Superbowl appearance in each decade except the 90s. Yeah, it will take time for Reggie and Dennis to win here but even making the right moves in one off season would go a long way with me.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by agular9 View Post
    This is a year to begin implementing systems and evaluating talent. Next year will prob be more of the same because there will likely be 20 new guys on next years 53. Although its been 10 years of losing, its only been 1 year of rebuilding. Cant blame it all on the coaches.
    The system they've implement didn't work at all. Ask DMC.
    Talent is not great in this team, but they're making good and aggressive player seem like stupid girl. Ask Curry.
    With another QB the offense would be totally stagnant, the D seems lost most of the time.
    Rebuilding means start going in the right direction. It's not happening. We're worse then last season, by far.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    I agree. Hue had to leave. I thought he was an excellent play caller. Probably one of the best in the game and seeing how our team is playing now there is little evidence that shows otherwise. But, he did himself in. As much as I like Palmer that was the trade that ended him.

    Id have to disagree that last year was the year to win.... that is if the Palmer trade never happened. See what so many people here don't want to accept is that there was no cap mess before the Palmer trade. Regardless of how old or overpaid the fans thought we were at 2 DT positions and 1 corner position the cap was fine and we had enough to sign who we needed, bush, whimbly (although many like to point out how poorly hes doing now he excelled with us) etc. AND we could have signed them to at least 3 years.
    Another reason to believe that last year was the start of something instead of the end of something was simply that it was not only Hues 1st year but many of our assistant coaches. We had Wiley, Wiz, Rod, and many others. <b>All first year coaches with the raiders and all great great football minds and all great teachers.</b> Again, one just needs to look at our season and how the players are performing in every aspect of the game. The evidence is clear.

    But, non of it mattered because of the HuePalmer gate.

    As I stated before though. I am with Reggie and Dennis and do look towards the future. But im also not blind to the mistakes of the current regime nor will I make any type of excuse for them. Now, Ill be the first to tell you I let Al Davis slide a lot....A Lot. But thats because I was a fan. He is the reason I started following football/Raiders. Studying the history of the NFL, Al Davis, The Raiders, growing up in Los Angeles in a predominantly Jewish community and also being a person of color myself, this man represented the attitude and philosophy you needed to survive during tumultuous years of the 80s and 90s, my childhood and early teen years. He had my respect and during the senile years I was forgiving. But "respect" is the key phrase. I am excited about Reggie and Dennis being here long term but its going to take more then just 1 season for me to turn a blind eye for things they should have thought more thoroughly. <b>Davis has my respect Reggie and Dennis need to earn it.</b> Davis brought 4 championships (1 afl, 3 NFL), 15 divisional championships, 21 playoff appearances and, my favorite, a Superbowl appearance in each decade except the 90s. Yeah, it will take time for Reggie and Dennis to win here but even making the right moves in one off season would go a long way with me.
    How do you go from being one of the best play callers in the game to the job he is in now? Did you see something every single other team in the league didn't? Every single ****ing time we change coaches everyone is so glad and so ready for the next yet the one consistent thing on these ****ty ass teams is the players, and they always seem to get a pass. You honestly think that this coaching staff isn't teaching tackling? Are you people at practice? Do you see what they do there? Can you compare what happens in practice to what happens in the game? How many of the players who have left the Raiders have gone on to be pro bowlers? Routt is ass, Nnamdi is ass, Bush isn't exactly tearing up the league, Miller is ass, Gallery is ass, Campbell is ass, Gradkowski is ass. Woodson is the only one who is really balling and he was a straight baller when he was here. You would think that the Raiders staff just does finger painting and nap time at practice they way they are talked about on here. NEWS FLASH!!!! There are only a hand full of players on this team that deserve to play in the NFL PERIOD! You can't coach non talented players that just can't get it. The coaches can't make these fools tackle, they can't make ****ty replacement linemen not get beat by premier rushers. They can't make the false starts stop. This team is just not good. It does not start with good coaches, it starts with talent, and until we can get that we will continue to suck.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    Interesting take and I agree on some of what you are saying, where I respectfully disagree is starting over 1 more time. The last 10 years the Raiders were never starting over because they never got started. Davis would pull the plug, never really letting anything get established. I would say for the first time in a decade yes they are finally trying to lay a foundation that will hopefully be successful in the near future. This was no easy fix or solution for McKenzie. He had some hard decisions to make and while I get where you and everyone that disagrees with how it was done are coming from it was inevitable, and anyone that actually believed McKenzie was going to remain status quo was wrong. It's always easier to sit at a PC and make judgments about what we see on the field every Sunday, but none of us knows what is happening behind the scenes. Has it been an epic failure? unfortunately, but as you said, they have who they have and all we can do is see how it plays out. It's frustrating for everyone, but there's not much we can do at the end of the day... Last years 8-8 record is also a bit misleading, and I say this because the team did lose 6 of its last 10 games. There's always a lot of speculation about what might have been, but the reaility is they folded regardless of the circumstances.
    Yeah, Im with you that Reggie is going to lay a foundation. The cap, because of hue/palmer trade, is a mess and this is what he has to work with and its going to take time. I think all of us were hoping that Dennis Allen would would somehow have the same impact as a Payton did in New Orleans or Whisenhunt in Arizona and we'd be smack in the playoff race. To me Hue was that last year until the debacle. A true leader will know what to do in times of adversity and Hue clearly did not know what to do. Hue folded when the team, Mark Davis, the Raider organization needed him most. He acted desperate and the players knew it. I like him as an offensive mind but he will never be a coach again.

    The thing about me is that im an optimist. I still believe we can go 8-8. lol, yeah I really do.
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  11. #26
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    Can this thread be shelved until the end of the year? Unless the coaches get a mid-term report card, why are we handing out grades?

    Not to make a direct comparison, but how do you think Giants fans would have rated their coach about this time last year?

    Give the guy a whole season, geesh, better yet, two.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bringdafunk View Post
    How do you go from being one of the best play callers in the game to the job he is in now? Did you see something every single other team in the league didn't? Every single ****ing time we change coaches everyone is so glad and so ready for the next yet the one consistent thing on these ****ty ass teams is the players, and they always seem to get a pass. You honestly think that this coaching staff isn't teaching tackling? Are you people at practice? Do you see what they do there? Can you compare what happens in practice to what happens in the game? How many of the players who have left the Raiders have gone on to be pro bowlers? Routt is ass, Nnamdi is ass, Bush isn't exactly tearing up the league, Miller is ass, Gallery is ass, Campbell is ass, Gradkowski is ass. Woodson is the only one who is really balling and he was a straight baller when he was here. You would think that the Raiders staff just does finger painting and nap time at practice they way they are talked about on here. NEWS FLASH!!!! There are only a hand full of players on this team that deserve to play in the NFL PERIOD! You can't coach non talented players that just can't get it. The coaches can't make these fools tackle, they can't make ****ty replacement linemen not get beat by premier rushers. They can't make the false starts stop. This team is just not good. It does not start with good coaches, it starts with talent, and until we can get that we will continue to suck.
    Ill keep it simple.

    Hues wont be an OC for a long time and he will never be a head coach again because hes an ass and nobody likes him. Hue was on full display last year and he crumbled in so many ways. Not only is he unlikable/****y (or so reports say) but the man is untrustworthy. Hes after everybodys job, got a big mouth and hes selfish. Tell me you didn't see that for yourself and there were bits an pieces of news that backed it up.

    You name so many players but I will leave it at this. Bush was pretty good here. Campbell was pretty good here (enough to sweep our division something we haven't done in a long time). Nnamdi was pretty good here, Miller was pretty good here. Some of these guys signed good to phenomenal contracts when they left. So they must have done something right. Or was the coaching that much better then what we have now? but honestly I don't care how bad or good they do elsewhere, they were good here. Let me repeat that. They were good here. #10 offense and #5 run game says a lot.

    Again, I felt that going 8-8 two years in a row was a foundation. Im not saying we had a probowl filled hall of fame squad. Just saying it was the start of something and something to build off of.

    I like Reggie a lot. Im more a Reggie fan than Dennis Fan right now. If anyone can get us back on track it will be him.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bringdafunk View Post
    How do you go from being one of the best play callers in the game to the job he is in now? Did you see something every single other team in the league didn't? Every single ****ing time we change coaches everyone is so glad and so ready for the next...[garbage]...NEWS FLASH!!!! There are only a hand full of players on this team that deserve to play in the NFL PERIOD! You can't coach non talented players that just can't get it. The coaches can't make these fools tackle, they can't make ****ty replacement linemen not get beat by premier rushers. They can't make the false starts stop. This team is just not good. It does not start with good coaches, it starts with talent, and until we can get that we will continue to suck.
    So you start downing last years coach. Then you down people for wanting a new coach in a very derogatory way. Which is it? How different are the people that want DA gone from you, someone who obviously had issues with Hue? Why do I get cursed at and talked to like I'm some kid, when I wanted us to stay consistant in the first place?

    Here is my opinion on some of YOU guys. You know the ones that preach consistancy. You didn't like Hue Jackson and wanted him to be fired sooo badly. That's fine, I don't care if you like the guy...I don't even know you. Then you got what you wanted, and all off season was thinking/talking how great this is going to be for the team. Feet hit the turf and frankly things haven't quite worked out the way you had hoped. Now you troll message boards and jump into arguements defending DA all the while constantly throwing jabs at fans who don't agree with you. Do you really think you are going to convince me to change an opinion on the internet? no you don't, you're trying to convince yourself. You make excuses like talent...

    Ok we don't have alot of talent on this team. This is a true statement. We know it. The other teams know it. Why do our coaches continue to send out plays/ alignments that require talent. I'm sorry Huff isn't Revies and Giodonna isn't Ed Reed, why do we run a scheme that demands them to play that way? You guys may think Wheeler is an outstanding player, but he was let go by one of the worst defenses last year. We have him chasing around a pass catching TE? When Wheeler wasn't drawing that duty it was Giodonna. Gio is 5'11" Pita is 6'4" what kind of coach allows that mismatch to happen? I could go on and on, but I'm going to end with this...playing THIS defense REQUIRES talent that we just don't have...everyone seems to know it, but our coaches.

    If what you say about our players being not worthy of being on the NFL why did Pat Lee get claimed off waivers by the Detroit Lions? He was good enough to not even clear waivers, yet we cut him? Why? Maybe you can come up with an answer because DA's wasn't good enough to make sense to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reapersgt View Post
    Why do our coaches continue to send out plays/ alignments that require talent.
    There is not one team in the NFL who wins based on scheme and scheme alone. If you have a bunch of scrubs, no matter how hard they try, they will not get the job done enough.
    Do it once, do it right. Or don't do it at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lix333 View Post
    Yeah, Im with you that Reggie is going to lay a foundation. The cap, because of hue/palmer trade, is a mess and this is what he has to work with and its going to take time. I think all of us were hoping that Dennis Allen would would somehow have the same impact as a Payton did in New Orleans or Whisenhunt in Arizona and we'd be smack in the playoff race. To me Hue was that last year until the debacle. A true leader will know what to do in times of adversity and Hue clearly did not know what to do. Hue folded when the team, Mark Davis, the Raider organization needed him most. He acted desperate and the players knew it. I like him as an offensive mind but he will never be a coach again.

    The thing about me is that im an optimist. I still believe we can go 8-8. lol, yeah I really do.
    Well said, and I wasn't as sure Allen would make a huge impact, but I do think he's a good coach and this first year is going to test his mettle. With some solid drafting and quality free agent aquisitions and staff evaluations I think they can get this ship headed in the right direction. Patience is the one word a lot of fans don't want to hear or read about, but that's what we have to do is be patient with the process.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

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