Agreed. Wasn't as bad as others made it seem
On NFL network.
I have no idea what everybody is freaking out about.
Seriously. Go watch a different game and we have half the issues most teams have.
that mcfadden sideline almoost catch is a TD the other 4/5 times.
Relax everyone. I know were frustrated with losing seasons as of late..
but this defense is disruptive as all hell and we have weapons on offense.
If you ask me we just need to keep players healthy. Depth is an issue.
We wont be worse than .500
Agreed. Wasn't as bad as others made it seem
Completely agree. The only problem was that the mistakes we made were magnified in that it resulted in either short field for their offense leading to easy scores, or in the case of the blocked punt, a direct score. We'll be fine come opening day. My biggest concern is special teams right now, got a bad vibe regarding Hoffmanns schemes.
ME 11-19-2009"If you want something, go get it. Don't let anyone convince you that it's impossible. Make the impossible possible. Do whatever's needed to make it happen. Go at it with both hands, take it in stride, and hit paydirt....."
Al Davis, the greatest ever owner in professional sportsJust win, baby!
Exactly. People overreact because it was during the heat of the moment. Plus, people have already chosen a side on Palmer (whether for or against) and it'll be hard to change their minds.
I re-watched it too. I'm actually re-watching it now. I see lots of problems. But, I think we'll be better with Moore, Myers, and Wiz back.
Palmer was okay throwing the ball for the most part. He threw two TDs that were dropped, and he was only off by hair on the wheel route to McFadden that led him out of bounds.
Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.
Just got done watching the game and am really surprised about he overeactions from the gameday thread. Some of you are real drama queens. Palmer makes 5 bad throws, six tops, half of them are from him trying to make a play after the pocket collapses with a defender in his face, or he was scrambling while throwing. He made a few bad throws that were just off target, and even some of these can be from a reciever running an option route wrong. Overall he made a handful of throws that were honestly pretty bad throws, but it's early, he hasn't been very "football active" in the last year and half, and he's still acclimating to the new recievers and coaching staff.
Our D-Line looks very good, especiall*y on the stunts.
edit: some of the posteres on the gameday thread were real drama queens*
Think I may be in love with this.
Agreed. Upon further review, enough positives from the game to remain positive.
"Be on time, pay attention, and play like Hell when I tell you to" - John Madden's three and only rules.
Mahalo Blackhole John
some question his decision making but all I see are still optimistic he can get the job done. The guy many have made their mind up on is Knapp. The ones who have no faith in him love to jump all over what's happening in pre season just hoping that continues so they can be right.
I agree. This is just the second game and we are using completely new systems on both sides of the ball. Add to that the guys out with injuries and the influx of new players and it should be no surprise that we appear a tad out of synch.
I finally got a chance to watch the game (early AM) and finally a chance to write down some ideas. I'm more or less just giving some observation on the 1st team O and 1st team D, the plays that stood out in some way to me. So I'm only covering the 1st half and not every play at that. Here's my take away:
Series 1 - Offense
- play 1: Palmer bootleg to backside drag - targeting Gordon. With pressure in the face, the ball was short, low and near INT.
- 3 and out
Series 1 - Defense
- Wheeler stood out from the 1st play. After finally lining up correctly to the bunch formation wide-side, he shot the gap in front of Heap, attacked the runner with good closure and stopped the run with a tackle in the backfield (Houston cleaned up the play).
Later in drive:
- 1st quarter: 12:10 mins / 2nd & 5 from OAK 20 yardline:
Burris loses contain, drawn in and down the line by the away dive action, which ended up being counter run. The playside tackle reaches him because of his overpursuit. He gets tripped up/shoved by o-lineman, out of play - leads to a 1st down run, 15 yard gain to OAK 5 yardline - 1st and Goal.
I'm very optimistic about Burris' transition to play at depth and shed. He's had some experience with it, while at SDSU, a few formations had him in the second level reading flow. But again, let's be honest, his stock in trade was rushing the passer in that 3-3-5, from a two-point (95% of the time at SDSU) and being violent with TEs and LTs. Good shove and rips, dip and dive or plain speed-rush around the edge. I wouldn't want to lose that element of his game for the sake of positional regiment. Hopefully it's just the pre-season vanilla aspect of things. It would be nice to have him rush from a stand-up, in passing situations, maybe over-top Shaughnessy every so often (or whatever).
- Overall 1st series, Defense got bullied by ARZ front 7. ARZ takes 1st drive for a TD. (They did recover though).
Series 2 - Offense
- 2nd time in a row that Ford returned a kickoff from 5 to 6 yards deep in the end zone. He gave field position less the twenty both times. The new rules all but ensure ball placement at the 20 yardline, but also ensures that coverage gets downfield to close off more territory. Of course seeing a speedy returner bust a huge gain or TD trumps everything - catch 22. (not complaining)
- McFadden has such speed that at times he's making cuts up-field so soon and not staying with the outside zone to his detriment. Example: 2nd play of 2nd series (10:15). It's on the outside zone stretch specifically because of his rare speed.
DMC will be fine, he's an excellent back, an athletic force - he sometimes is just too quick and fast for his own good on zone stretch specifically.
- Palmer makes two passes in succession, both 12 to 15 yard sideline OUT routes. The one to Ford, in twins, for 1st down. The following play, 1st down (8:58) pass to DHB (single flanker) on the same side of the field, Flanker OUT.
Now in all honesty these are passes expected to be made by 1st team NFL QBs. Yet the DHB pass was nice because he stepped forward into pressure and actually took a shot, got drilled in the knee - there was a penalty called.
Later in the drive:
- 1st quarter / 8:47: The blocking scheme gets a switch to Man (only Carlisle and Parsons tandem block the 0-tech DT) and counter is called with backside pulling guard (Briz) who kicks-out the edge and motion man tight end (Ausberry) leading to C-Gap. DMC breaks off a large gain.
Again, rare athlete. I hope he stays healthy. And again, I feel the o-line is the backbone and the run game is how this team will be defined.
- 1st quarter / 7:52:
1st down, Single back, dive left. Inside zone, covered/uncovered calls. Brisiel is covered. He manages to shoot vertical, attempting a cut block downfield, more or less gets the defender off balance but provides space enough for a cutback. Veldheer latches on Acho, the OLB playside. Carlisle & Parsons combo the playside DT. Barnes reaches backside the DT that covered Briz, Barnes beats him to inside leverage. If McFadden had just seen the wide-side (backside) cutback (the angle was about 45* degrees) off of Barnes' fanny, he's getting a more substantial gain. He had downfield blockers backside, perhaps he's taking 6. As it were, playside LB filled the hole and DMC barreled straight ahead.
2nd & 6 / ARZ 13 yardline:
- Drop by DHB. Ball was placed nicely by Palmer, noticable velocity. A skinny stem or seam route pushed to the inside of the hash, in the endzone. DHB needs to have that - team needs to have that.
- Palmer makes another nice throw, this time off balance, but Streater can't hold onto it. It was challenged aggressively by the DB. There is a penalty and it's 1st & Goal.
Result of drive is a FG. And in hindsight, as the game went on and a couple more drives ended with FG, it probably demoralized the unit a bit. Had this drive, the first real attempt of the game in the redzone, been a TD, maybe different story later on. Who knows.
Series 2 - Defense:
1st quarter / 2nd & 4 / 4:52:
- Nice pressure by the D. Wheeler set the stage. He comes from a two-point stabce, stand-up rush from a Wide-9 alignment. Four downlineman flank to his left, 2 LBs in depth, Branch drawn up into the box with deep safety over top. Corners in Man, one in press, the other in off-man coverage. Wheeler, because the TE releases straight ahead down the wide-side seam, gets a free run at Kolb. The LT blocks down onto Shaughnessy. Williams (RB) alertly redirects and chips Wheeler on the Blitz. Meanwhile, McClain goes delay blitz to the C-Gap / 7-hole. The ARZ guard picks him up but pushes him wide, only problem, Kolb bailed to the wide-side from pressure right to Die Hard. McCalin somewhat overpusues, Kolb is able to sidestep him. Eventually he gets a hand on him to pull him down. Lastly, Seymour beats his man and pressures from the backside and should get credit for a knockdown on Kolb.
Refs were horrible here, as the penalty and yardage was all backwards.
- Next play, sack for a safety. Great way for the D to answer.
Series 3 - Offense:
1st quarter / 1st down / 4:29 mins:
- Good to see Ford used in the slot rather than outside Flanker running GOs for jumpballs. Empty backfield - shotgun. Ford quick OUT route, underneath DHB who clears vertical.
1st quarter / 0.40 min:
- Fade pass from Palmer to McFadden on Wheel route goes incomplete. He was wide open, ball was good, lots of loft though and carried just a hair long. Really needed that one. It did look like DMC got his two feet in-bounds from slow-mo, but forget about it with the Amos and Andy replacement refs out there.
Series 3 - Defense:
1st quarter / 0.35:
- Same defensive alignment as the pressure blitz for the intentional grounding. Wheeler this time on left side of the D, wide-side, again in a Wide-9 outside of the TE covering the RT. However, this time a pulling guard (Colledge) kicks him out as he didn't crash down the line as aggressive as he could have. He got bullied a bit by the larger Colledge and pushed out of the play. Marginal gain however from the RB. Burris misread the play.
End of 1st Quarter
2nd quarter / 3rd down / 14:52:
- Nearly everyone is pressed at the LOS, except for deep safety. Four D-line rush, McClain blitzes A-Gap, Shaughnasty has outside alignment to LT, Wheeler is flanked outside in Wide-9 (stand-up again) he rushes and Branch blitzes from about 7 yards deep. Shaughnessy starts from a 7-Tech, he stunts to the A-Gap which crashes the LT down. The FB or TE occupies Wheeler on the outside edge. The RB however gets caught up in the trees, fails to see Branch who shoots through the open C-Gap. The RB at first redirects right to pick Shaughnessy, then last minute tries to pick up Branch, doesn't though. Meanwhile Houston runs a stunt as well, he runs free. He successfully gets the RT & RG to bumble together and he and Branch meet at the QB, Wheeler tops it off.
Series 4 - Offense:
2nd quarter / 14:10
- Palmer INT. This play is reminiscent of a Waggle, in so much as the route by the TE (Red 411 Waggle / HB wheel). The route was an outside bow to Stem inside. A Seam route more or less. But unlike waggle there's no playfake and no rolling of the QB. It's straight drop back, 5 step.
The pass was too lofted, elevated and it was placed outside shoulder rather than inside to the hash, where there was an opening in the coverage. The corner actually tipped the ball last second, at the high point.
But again, if Palmer continues to turn the ball over, even on these close but no cigar type passes, it doesn't matter what level of staunch defense the team gets or the amount of solid run game - they won't be able to win games consistently while losing the turnover battle.
The TE, Gordon, was covered well to his outside shoulder (toward the numbers / sideline). There was a LB underneath the route and saftey help overtop, but he saftey was well behind the play - there was a window in the zone. Gordon lined up already wide of the has marks, about middle way between the hash and numbers. Gordon stemed the route vertical and inside. Had Palmer placed it in front of him, insider shoulder side, he probably completes it. Gordon had to adjust back outside to try and make a play on the ball.
What's unfortunate about the whole play is that it yielded a huge return, putting ARZ in scoring range, which lead eventually to a FG.
The good to take from it, guess who ran down the play to save a TD? - #80 Streater. The dude from nowhere is everywhere. And the D held ARZ to just a FG.
Series 4 - Defense:
- After the INT, the defense holds ARZ to a FG. They pressured well again.
The replacement refs again are just an embarressment. I had no idea what happened on the holding/illegal touching call. I was totally baffled as to why they spotted the ball where they did and why both penalties were declined ... idk.
Series 5 - Offense:
2nd quarter / 2nd & 9 / 12:00 min
- Goodson fumble
This is kind-of where the tide turns. The fumble leads next possession to an ARZ TD.
Series 5 - Defense:
2nd quarter / 11:41
- At this point the turnovers are straining the D. ARZ just dinks underneath passes to move chains and eventually a TD. At 9:55 mark, 2nd quarter - ARZ leads 17 to 8.
Series 6 - Offense:
2nd quarter / 8:45 / 3rd & 3:
- Ball at OAK 27 - Palmer still in, he's flushed, made to throw on the run. The pass is off target, low and inside (behind) the receiver breaking out to sideline (Streater). Palmer was flushed but had enough time to see the A-Gap blitz before it overtook him. Brisiel's communication with Barnes must have been off because they double the same d-lineman and Briz only gets a piece of the LB with the help of the RB. The saftey runs free. Briz deserves some fault there.
Palmer made an athletic play to avoid rush, but couldn't muster a solid throw on the run. He didn't complete the play. The ball was a wobbler to the ground.
I'm sorry but that's a pass needed to be made, pressure or no. In general (not this play) this zone stretch scheme needs a semi-efficent bootleg pass scheme dialed in off of run. This play was a scramble, an avoidance of rush, yet same principles apply - throwing on the run. The LOS was at the OAK 27, the ball hit the ground at the OAK 35. Palmer threw it from the OAK 18 while on the run.
- Special Teams - blocked punt. That was demoralizing.
Series 7 - Offense:
- Palmer again. Now the pass plays are just short underneath stuff, a 5 yard slant, a 3 to 5 yard deep drag. Streater made a great adjustment for a catch on the Curl/Hitch.
- Goodson again with a fumble. Raiders recover. He had some injury in camp, maybe it's lingering, however, at this point I have a hard time seeing his name among the 53.
2nd & 15 / 4:00:
- DHB draws a personal foul call on the ARZ DB, however, Palmer misses his secondary read, the TE drag (Ausberry) running behind coverage. DHB was double covered.
- I form, fake dive playaction pass by CP, 5 step drop. Target DHB on sideline OUT, 13/15 yards depth. LOS on OAK 46, thrown from OAK 40, ball bounces at ARZ 40 yardline. The ball just sunk.
Again, sometimes it's mechanical and sometimes it's reads, being an issue.
- A drive ensues, focus on Streater. Make it to goalline.
- Miller gets some carries and moves the chains.
- Drive stalls at goalline. Two pass attempts get stymied. Drive does yields points, FG.
Series 6 - Defense:
2nd quarter / 0:09
- AZ kneel down
Series 8 - Offense
- Lonyae Miller, to me, is an ideal back for zbs. Probably better on inside zone rather than outside stretch, due to his power running and ability to deflect power blows. He patient for the holes, waits for the blocks, powerful and his speed is tuned to a good tempo. A guy with faster wheels overruns the blocking or presses the cut back too soon. LM will make plays throughout the season - imo. His stutter-stepping behind o-linemen is exactly what you want to see. It draws in the defenders and he can bounce a play or sidestep a tackler.
Results are what matter and the 1st team offense, again, stalled and sputtered. The offense had a poor outing in my estimation, though there were moments of proficiency. For better or worse the starting QB inherits the success or failure of that unit. Turnovers kill 'ya - cliche but true. Whether they be fumbles or INTs or blocked kicks/punts it ruins the game. The defense made stops. They allowed some easy scores but they had to carry the workload as the offense really didn't get a sustained drive going until the end of 1st half. Again, mixed bag with Palmer - that's my take. If you keep the offense simple for him, that minimizes the chance for turnovers.
Some players that I thought stood out despite the lack of results and bumbles, of the 1st half.
Branch - I mean did you see any deep post passes or any Larry F's stem to vertical seam route go to the house? - No. And one excellent blitz sack.
Houston - I don't know his stat line but it probably has at least a couple of tackles and a couple of sacks / pressures.
Kelly - Same with Houston - pressure, pressure, pressure.
Wheeler - Active, making tackles or disrupting the offense. He was used often enough on edge contain or flat out blitz due his speed.
Streater - A couple of silly grabs from errant Palmer throws. Also took some shots and got up each time. Ran down the INT save a TD, hustle.
Brisiel - Just watch the man as he gets downfield on screens, shooting the gap, getting to the 2nd level. There is no doubt he's giving 100%.
Miller - Again, he's got Ryan Torain type pacing, sneaky effective, sidestepping blows and churning forward for yardage. Fit for zbs.
McFadden - Obviously the best weapon.
In conclusion, Matlock.
P.S. not trying to be contrarian or negative. Actually I was trying to be overtly positive in the write-up, even though I felt ultimately that the game was a negative for the offense and special teams. Defense I thought made plays early on but were constantly put in tough situations.
Way too long of an oppinion to read bro.
Its actually a good read, bro. Lots of straightforward good football talk.
you might learn something.
The only thing i disagree with is goodson not making the 53.
I dont think he should be pulled so early.
The helmet on the ball and he was in pain after that hit.
that and reggie mac loves his trade.
the first fumble was also a great play by washington to get his hand on the ball.
but he does need to have a fumble free rest of the preseason or i will agree with ya there.
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