Irony and the Draft

[cheapshotartist]

huh??im not sure how you could say DHB is on the rise but nicks/maxlin will be dropping out of sight soon??ive not heard one word about nicks not being a hard worker...i like DHB but sometimes fans make him out to be the hardest working WR in the league..dont you guys think other WRs work hard too??

That's what I'm saying coogi, DHB is suppose to work hard so I'm not giving him any credit for getting ready to play. That's his job! I don't see Nicks or Maclins play dropping off any time soon unless they get injured and Crabtree and DHB have about the same stats but DHB was taken higher in the draft so why are so many people concerned with comparing the two? Crabtree played in the NFC championship game last season. DHB was at home.

[MadBomber24]

When was D Mac considered a bad pick?

Plenty of posters were calling him a bust after his first and 2nd year. It wasn't until he had a good 3rd year that talk died down. I was starting to be convinced that DMC wasn't as good as I originally thought and posted he might be a reggie bush type player who couldn't be a #1 back but could make plays in the passing game or occasional big run. After his first two years all we had seen were flashes. He had been easy to tackle and never seemed to make anything happen on his own. Now the only question is can he stay healthy. Still not the ideal situation for a #4 pick.

[mmbt]

Plenty of posters were calling him a bust after his first and 2nd year. It wasn't until he had a good 3rd year that talk died down. I was starting to be convinced that DMC wasn't as good as I originally thought and posted he might be a reggie bush type player who couldn't be a #1 back but could make plays in the passing game or occasional big run. After his first two years all we had seen were flashes. He had been easy to tackle and never seemed to make anything happen on his own. Now the only question is can he stay healthy. Still not the ideal situation for a #4 pick.

We'd picked JR, Dmac, and DHB hoping for our version of Aikman, Emmitt, and Irvin. It was starting to look like we got Tim Couch, Blair Thomas, and Charles Rogers instead. Thank god both Dmac and DHB have killed talk of being outright busts.

[regret]

That's what I'm saying coogi, DHB is suppose to work hard so I'm not giving him any credit for getting ready to play. That's his job! I don't see Nicks or Maclins play dropping off any time soon unless they get injured and Crabtree and DHB have about the same stats but DHB was taken higher in the draft so why are so many people concerned with comparing the two? Crabtree played in the NFC championship game last season. DHB was at home.

And more to the point: we had offensive line issues for how long at that point? And we took a WIDE RECEIVER with our first round pick? Jesus, Al. I mean, that's my primary gripe with the DHB pick. If you want a receiver, well, fine. But take him in the second round after we get a blue chip OL prospect. We aren't going to win **** with our quarterback on his ass all game long.

Plenty of posters were calling him a bust after his first and 2nd year.

^ why I'm a little cautious about declaring Ro a bust. He's another guy who was drafted very young and may yet develop into something. Plus he has some more modern defensive minds working with him now which may help some, too.

[MadBomber24]

Agree. Also he was hurt last year and still played. While I am concerned about him based on his level of play, I am hoping he steps up and becomes a strength on this team still.

That's what I'm saying coogi, DHB is suppose to work hard so I'm not giving him any credit for getting ready to play. That's his job! I don't see Nicks or Maclins play dropping off any time soon unless they get injured and Crabtree and DHB have about the same stats but DHB was taken higher in the draft so why are so many people concerned with comparing the two? Crabtree played in the NFC championship game last season. DHB was at home.

And more to the point: we had offensive line issues for how long at that point? And we took a WIDE RECEIVER with our first round pick? Jesus, Al. I mean, that's my primary gripe with the DHB pick. If you want a receiver, well, fine. But take him in the second round after we get a blue chip OL prospect. We aren't going to win **** with our quarterback on his ass all game long.

Plenty of posters were calling him a bust after his first and 2nd year.

^ why I'm a little cautious about declaring Ro a bust. He's another guy who was drafted very young and may yet develop into something. Plus he has some more modern defensive minds working with him now which may help some, too.

[Okie]

Plenty of posters were calling him a bust after his first and 2nd year. It wasn't until he had a good 3rd year that talk died down. I was starting to be convinced that DMC wasn't as good as I originally thought and posted he might be a reggie bush type player who couldn't be a #1 back but could make plays in the passing game or occasional big run. After his first two years all we had seen were flashes. He had been easy to tackle and never seemed to make anything happen on his own. Now the only question is can he stay healthy. Still not the ideal situation for a #4 pick.

Exactly. Go back to 2009 and even the start of 2010 and look how many DMAC bust posts there are alone on this site. That was the sentiment with the majority of football people as well. You can even go back to the time of the draft and most of the "experts" had us below a B with most of them a C on the pick. There was alot of talk about DMACs running style (remember all of the "skinny legs" bashing around here) but the biggest reason most people graded us badly on the pick was because it was nowhere near a position of need for this team. This team had so many holes and RB was at the bottom of the list. Fargas and Jordon were coming off a 1,600 yard season even dealing with injuries. We had gaping holes on our offensive line, wide receiver and defensive line, running back wasnt listed on many, if any draft needs list.

And more to the point: we had offensive line issues for how long at that point? And we took a WIDE RECEIVER with our first round pick? Jesus, Al. I mean, that's my primary gripe with the DHB pick. If you want a receiver, well, fine. But take him in the second round after we get a blue chip OL prospect. We aren't going to win **** with our quarterback on his ass all game long.

I agreed with you back then completely. Go back to that year and i am the banner holder for complaining about the offensive line back then (CSA might be a close second). That year i was big on Monroe, Oher and even Crabtree. With that said Curry was our best receiver and Wide Receiver was definitely our most glaring need. Henderson was coming off a year where he improved greatly and we thought we had our LT locked down. Didnt we think we had a decent, improved line with pickups of Carlisle, Barnes and Satele to compete with Walker and Green? I complained about the offensive line for half a decade and that year i thought it was improved enough to justify picking up a badly needed WR. Unfortuntately, we picked up a WR who didnt make an immediate impact.

^ why I'm a little cautious about declaring Ro a bust. He's another guy who was drafted very young and may yet develop into something. Plus he has some more modern defensive minds working with him now which may help some, too.

I agree, i always try to give guys 3 years to see improvement and while i complain about him i always end the posts with he gets another year.

Funny, wasnt it you that argued with me prior to the draft about McClain. My concerns were that he seemed slow to the ball and gets lost in the wash too much and we went around and around about it? I think i was big on A. Davis but you (or the poster) convinced me McClain was so productive and an good, safe pick.

[regret]

That is the most agreement we've had, ever, Okie!

But seriously, my memory is a little fuzzy on Henderson. Weren't we just kind of praying he could turn two decent games at the end of that season into a career? Obviously my drafting priorities are a little different from Al's in that I'd still draft o-line even with questionable depth at receiver... I just don't think you get anywhere until the OL is stout enough to protect your quarterback (on that front we did JR no favors).

Re DMC: I'm not so sure there was a lot of outright bust talk but I do recall typing out the phrase "chicken legs" on a few occasions, especially when he kept going down on first contact. Anyway, I think that sort of observation was legitimate and I'm really happy he took it upon himself to tweak his upright running style, get himself into that Michael Johnson program, etc. He went from -- as another poster said -- borderline Reggie Bush territory to a credible rival to Adrian Peterson.

[Idaho Raider]

Just because Fabian was gone doesn't mean he wasn't good. Fabian was/ is decent CB and truly I would have much rather had him last year than Routt. Fabian wasn't a bust, we just decided not to pay him because we had Nnamdi, Routt and a bunch of other fast guys posing as DBs.

We traded him for what? A 4th round pick? Routt out played him. He lost his job in Baltimore. Rout is was much better. Fabian was not good.

[acidwash]

RE the Jano pick, it's been debated on here hundreds of times....people justify it by saying how good he is. Fact is, while he is AMONG the best K in the NFL, he is not by any stretch head and shoulders above the rest. Historically kicking is better than ever in recent years (record set last year for most FG 50+). look up the stats.

There are at least half a dozen K right now who are as good as Jano. Most were late picks or FA.

So. We could have gotten a similar K much cheaper, with little if any impact on W-L.

JMHO.

youre looking at kicking stats over the last couple years. We've had that kind of kicker on our team much longer than the last couple of years. Kickers like Jano may be becoming the norm now, but they were NOT the norm when he was drafted.

[Raiders Baby!]

RE the Jano pick, it's been debated on here hundreds of times....people justify it by saying how good he is. Fact is, while he is AMONG the best K in the NFL, he is not by any stretch head and shoulders above the rest. Historically kicking is better than ever in recent years (record set last year for most FG 50+). look up the stats.

There are at least half a dozen K right now who are as good as Jano. Most were late picks or FA.

So. We could have gotten a similar K much cheaper, with little if any impact on W-L.

JMHO.

I agree we could've gotten Jano later, but to say he is not clearly the best in the league right now doesn't do him justice. He is tied for longest kick ever, has the most kicks over 60 yards and has hit a large number from 50+ as well. Pretty sure he leads current kickers in all these stats/ His accuracy was questionable early on but has improved drastically over the last few seasons. Jano's name will be mentioned in the pantheon of great kickers, right in there with the likes of Vinatieri (f*** that guy). The only kicker in the league right now that is comparable to Jano in ability is Prater, IMHO. Prater was an UDFA, and it would've been better to get Janikowski later in the draft- no argument there- but you make it sound like Jano is just an above average kicker and that just isn't fair. He is special.

[cheapshotartist]

Jano's name will be mentioned in the pantheon of great kickers, right in there with the likes of Vinatieri (f*** that guy).

He needs some SB rings and some cluch playoff kicks first. I hope he gets them.

[MadBomber24]

We traded him for what? A 4th round pick? Routt out played him. He lost his job in Baltimore. Rout is was much better. Fabian was not good.

based on what? Fabian played well for us considering what kind of team we had. He then became a starter on one of the best defenses in football and held that spot for a few years (not sure but he may still be starting there. Havent really payed attention to him the last couple years). Sorry but I dont think your perception of Fabian compared to Routt is even close to accurate.

[MadBomber24]

I agree we could've gotten Jano later, but to say he is not clearly the best in the league right now doesn't do him justice. He is tied for longest kick ever, has the most kicks over 60 yards and has hit a large number from 50+ as well. Pretty sure he leads current kickers in all these stats/ His accuracy was questionable early on but has improved drastically over the last few seasons. Jano's name will be mentioned in the pantheon of great kickers, right in there with the likes of Vinatieri (f*** that guy). The only kicker in the league right now that is comparable to Jano in ability is Prater, IMHO. Prater was an UDFA, and it would've been better to get Janikowski later in the draft- no argument there- but you make it sound like Jano is just an above average kicker and that just isn't fair. He is special.

My take on Jano in the first rd is this. He wasnt worth a first rd pick PERIOD. He has been in the league for what 13-14 years now and up until the last 3 or 4 he was never considered one of the better or more reliable kickers in the league. For most of his career he was a guy with a booming leg who was inconsistent on FGs. He could make those 50+ yard ones look easy one week and then miss 2 or 3 easier kicks the next. His Kickoffs has been the only part of his game that has truly been at or near the top of the league consistently. While I get the reasoning behind taking him when we did (we had lost like 7 games by a FG or something like that the year before and our kickers were terrible) I dont agree that we needed to use a 1st rd pick to get a kicker. Doesnt matter how good he is. And we needed a kicker so bad that his rookie year we went 8-8.... again. Im not going to look back at that draft and say we should have picked this guy or that guy as hindsight is always 20/20 but we had other holes on that team we could have tried to address and we still could have gotten a very good kicker later in the draft or as a FA and been better off. Jano may have been a need but even if kicker is your teams biggest need you can help your team more by addressing other needs first.

I dont care if Jano goes into the HOF (which he has no chance of IMO) he was never worth a first rd pick. Doesnt mean hes not a good player, just that he cant help us win as much as a player whos on the field every down instead of 5 or 6 plays a game.

[Idaho Raider]

based on what? Fabian played well for us considering what kind of team we had. He then became a starter on one of the best defenses in football and held that spot for a few years (not sure but he may still be starting there. Havent really payed attention to him the last couple years). Sorry but I dont think your perception of Fabian compared to Routt is even close to accurate.

I think he was a starter in baltimore for 1 full season. Lost his job. Was cut or traded to New Orleans, rode the pine most of the time was injured and is out of the league. My perception seems to hold some water.

[MadBomber24]

I think he was a starter in baltimore for 1 full season. Lost his job. Was cut or traded to New Orleans, rode the pine most of the time was injured and is out of the league. My perception seems to hold some water.

He was with Balt for 3 seasons. One was cut short because of a knee injury. The guy was a decent CB and holds up the Routt in every way.

He signed with NO last year as a FA.