"Richard Seymour Sees More Disciplined Defense in 2012"

[RunOvrByHubbard]

Yep. He could have been released along with the other guys and we'd have been no worse for wear (cap implications notwithstanding).

Discipline? How many games has the guy been thrown out of since he's been here? I think it's 3. How many other players combined on the team have been thrown out of games in that same time period?

And he's the vet who's supposed to be the defensive leader but isn't showing up for voluntaries? Sure thing.

I hope he regains his old form, although it's doubtful. I am just fed up with talk--from anyone on the team. Especially when none of them step up and admit how badly they sucked last year. Sure, our DC was ass and so were his schemes, but none of these guys have bothered to utter a syllable about what a bunch of no account slackers they were. It's our job as fans to point fingers at the DC, it's their job as players to point fingers at themselves.

No more of this silly talk about discipline. Just do it.

Amen!!

[cheapshotartist]

Imagine, people having negative things to say about our defensive players. Haters, plain and simple.

Word!

Discipline? How many games has the guy been thrown out of since he's been here? I think it's 3. How many other players combined on the team have been thrown out of games in that same time period?

And he's the vet who's supposed to be the defensive leader but isn't showing up for voluntaries? Sure thing.

I hope he regains his old form, although it's doubtful. I am just fed up with talk--from anyone on the team. Especially when none of them step up and admit how badly they sucked last year. Sure, our DC was ass and so were his schemes, but none of these guys have bothered to utter a syllable about what a bunch of no account slackers they were. It's our job as fans to point fingers at the DC, it's their job as players to point fingers at themselves.

No more of this silly talk about discipline. Just do it.

I agree this is the last guy who needs to talk about discipline.

Talk is cheap. Seymour didn't show up at the voluntary stuff. I'm hoping the new regime expects him to practice more than half the time.

Word, leaders lead they don't run their mouths, he could have showed up just to support the team. With the money he will make in 2012 he should be living in Alameda.

And as far as Seymour's words, to me they are just that. Its pretty easy to talk about "its how you practice that counts" is gold from a guy that doesn't practice very much. Also, no reason he couldn't have been at the voluntary part, just held in a limited role. On offense I think Palmer was there, so was Carlisle, Barnes.

But talk from anyone on defense doesn't mean crap to me unless it is to hear someone say "I personally did not play well last year and will try hard to correct that". Our defense was inexcusable last year, and I have yet to hear a single guy take personal responsibility for it.

No one is going to except any blame for our lame azz defense, it's always the other guys fault.

[Naphtali]

Seymour...my main man, its been rough on him here, you can lead the camels to water but you can't make them drink.....or is it horses.
Anyway hes been Pro Bowl calibur since hes been here for the most part, I understand his frustration it doesn't matter how well he plays or how he dominates the guard on most plays, or even collasping the pocket when everyone else around him plays like trash(relatively speaking). He comes from great smart defensive teams who knew how to customize their gamplan for their opponent to this.
He had to watch NNamdi leave, have Tom Cable as his head coach, Breshnehan calling the defense,
the biggest bust in the history of the league
no doubt frustrating for him coming from stability, did he use that as an excuse....NO!!



People always bust out with the taking reps from (insert player not good enough to be a starter but a good situational player here) whoever you wanna name. Like Trevor Scott, guy shows some burst off the edge, makes some sacks and people are ready to anoint him only to see all his weaknesses exposed with more playing time
Get off Seymour and get on someone else, you coming off weak trying to go after him



Keep your season alive on special teams, trying to lead by example in the clutch moment




If people have a personal problem with seymour.....fine, but dont disrespect this dude

[kinz]

Seymour...my main man, its been rough on him here, you can lead the camels to water but you can't make them drink.....or is it horses.
Anyway hes been Pro Bowl calibur since hes been here for the most part, I understand his frustration it doesn't matter how well he plays or how he dominates the guard on most plays, or even collasping the pocket when everyone else around him plays like trash(relatively speaking). He comes from great smart defensive teams who knew how to customize their gamplan for their opponent to this.
He had to watch NNamdi leave, have Tom Cable as his head coach, Breshnehan calling the defense,
the biggest bust in the history of the league
no doubt frustrating for him coming from stability, did he use that as an excuse....NO!!



People always bust out with the taking reps from (insert player not good enough to be a starter but a good situational player here) whoever you wanna name. Like Trevor Scott, guy shows some burst off the edge, makes some sacks and people are ready to anoint him only to see all his weaknesses exposed with more playing time
Get off Seymour and get on someone else, you coming off weak trying to go after him



Keep your season alive on special teams, trying to lead by example in the clutch moment




If people have a personal problem with seymour.....fine, but dont disrespect this dude

So Trevor Scott sucking is adequate reason to be paying Seymour $15 mil?

Seymour is a very good player, but his heart isn't in this, and you can tell. He is also starting to run out of gas. This isn't Rod Woodson or Jerry Rice (both of whom I recall practicing all the time), or even Romo, Seymour is not a leader on this team. Agree that he has been in a bad situation, and said the right things, but its time to look to the future. We had to pay him this year anyway, I don't think he will be here in 2013.

[dmauke]

Well said.

Lets make our own leaders instead of trying to buy them.

So Trevor Scott sucking is adequate reason to be paying Seymour $15 mil?

Seymour is a very good player, but his heart isn't in this, and you can tell. He is also starting to run out of gas. This isn't Rod Woodson or Jerry Rice (both of whom I recall practicing all the time), or even Romo, Seymour is not a leader on this team. Agree that he has been in a bad situation, and said the right things, but its time to look to the future. We had to pay him this year anyway, I don't think he will be here in 2013.

Rod, Jerry, and Romo were all free agent vets just like Seymour, so the make our leaders instead of buying them post doesn't make any sense when comparing it to your other post. I don't think Seymour was ever asked to be a leader until he came to Oakland, and maybe he's not a natural one. However I do think he stepped up and made the attempt. Look at the difference between the teams those 3 came to and the one Seymour came to. Totally different situations, those earlier teams already had veteran leadership on it. Seymour came to a young limited team talent wise, with no locker room leadership, a poor coaching staff, and a watered down front office. It would have been nice for Seymour to come to a Raiders team that had the leadership of a guy like Rich Gannon(also a free agent), but he didn't. I just think too much is asked, when I saw a guy do a hell of a lot more to be a leader than most of the clutter that has come through this org.

Wasn't it Seymour along with Jason Campbell who got the team together last off season to work during the lockout? I don't think his work ethic or leadership should come into question. Didn't he restructure his contract in March? If his heart isn't in it, then what are all the other players excuses? Seymour may be on the downside of his career, I would still take him over most of the crap lining up on the defense. If you think age is an issue with him and he's not the same player anymore that's one thing, but this guy is a champion. He didn't sit on the bench while the Patriots where in all those Super Bowl's, he was one of their best players. He's been there, and knows what it takes. That's irreplaceable experience.

When a team is young and undisciplined, the front office and the coaches need to step up and lead and discipline the team. The more seasoned vets you have on a team, the better the leadership will be in the locker room, and the less discipline they'll need outside of it. From what I have seen the past 6-7 years, the front office and coaching staff's have failed more than the veteran leadership on the team( what little has been). I think that's why you saw Sapp, and Seymour have their blowups. Both guys come from Championship disciplined teams. You can try to lead by example, you can try to talk to guys, but when you have nobody really backing you up in the locker room or the office, it's going to frustrate you.

[kinz]

Rod, Jerry, and Romo were all free agent vets just like Seymour, so the make our leaders instead of buying them post doesn't make any sense when comparing it to your other post. I don't think Seymour was ever asked to be a leader until he came to Oakland, and maybe he's not a natural one. However I do think he stepped up and made the attempt. Look at the difference between the teams those 3 came to and the one Seymour came to. Totally different situations, those earlier teams already had veteran leadership on it. Seymour came to a young limited team talent wise, with no locker room leadership, a poor coaching staff, and a watered down front office. It would have been nice for Seymour to come to a Raiders team that had the leadership of a guy like Rich Gannon(also a free agent), but he didn't. I just think too much is asked, when I saw a guy do a hell of a lot more to be a leader than most of the clutter that has come through this org.

Wasn't it Seymour along with Jason Campbell who got the team together last off season to work during the lockout? I don't think his work ethic or leadership should come into question. Didn't he restructure his contract in March? If his heart isn't in it, then what are all the other players excuses? Seymour may be on the downside of his career, I would still take him over most of the crap lining up on the defense. If you think age is an issue with him and he's not the same player anymore that's one thing, but this guy is a champion. He didn't sit on the bench while the Patriots where in all those Super Bowl's, he was one of their best players. He's been there, and knows what it takes. That's irreplaceable experience.

When a team is young and undisciplined, the front office and the coaches need to step up and lead and discipline the team. The more seasoned vets you have on a team, the better the leadership will be in the locker room, and the less discipline they'll need outside of it. From what I have seen the past 6-7 years, the front office and coaching staff's have failed more than the veteran leadership on the team( what little has been). I think that's why you saw Sapp, and Seymour have their blowups. Both guys come from Championship disciplined teams. You can try to lead by example, you can try to talk to guys, but when you have nobody really backing you up in the locker room or the office, it's going to frustrate you.

I really do think we should go with developing our own leaders. Sometimes the rent-a-vet works out, like it did with Woodson, but usually it doesn't. As far as his work ethic and leadership, he did organize that meeting. Gets credit for that. But he also showed for about half the practices through the offseason and during the season. But what really gets me is that he takes no accountability. He says things like "they game planned for us and ran to the outside", "the defense will be more disciplined", he never says stuff like I made stupid mistakes getting tossed out, or I didn't have a good year and will have a better one, I didn't play the run well.

One thing that would change my mind about Seymour is knowing the details of his contract. If indeed he gave the team the option of keeping him for 7.5 mil for as long as we want, then that is something. The details of these contracts are usually not reported correctly, and I am guessing that there is something not put down here.

To me, Seymour is nowhere near worth the money we pay him. At 7.5 mil, in a limited role to keep him fresh, I can see it. At 15 mil a year, as the "leader" of the defense, it just doesn't add up to me.

[dmauke]

I really do think we should go with developing our own leaders. Sometimes the rent-a-vet works out, like it did with Woodson, but usually it doesn't. As far as his work ethic and leadership, he did organize that meeting. Gets credit for that. But he also showed for about half the practices through the offseason and during the season. But what really gets me is that he takes no accountability. He says things like "they game planned for us and ran to the outside", "the defense will be more disciplined", he never says stuff like I made stupid mistakes getting tossed out, or I didn't have a good year and will have a better one, I didn't play the run well.

One thing that would change my mind about Seymour is knowing the details of his contract. If indeed he gave the team the option of keeping him for 7.5 mil for as long as we want, then that is something. The details of these contracts are usually not reported correctly, and I am guessing that there is something not put down here.

To me, Seymour is nowhere near worth the money we pay him. At 7.5 mil, in a limited role to keep him fresh, I can see it. At 15 mil a year, as the "leader" of the defense, it just doesn't add up to me.

Fair enough. I agree that it would be nice to bring players in as rookies and watch them develop into great leaders like Ray Lewis in Baltimore, or Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. At this point anyone stepping up to be a great leader would be nice.

[kinz]

Fair enough. I agree that it would be nice to bring players in as rookies and watch them develop into great leaders like Ray Lewis in Baltimore, or Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. At this point anyone stepping up to be a great leader would be nice.

On a positive note, I like a lot of what I see on offense. Veldheer and Wiz look like great kids. McFadden played hi heart out. Bey has real character, several others too.

Having even one guy on defense turn into a star and put some fire in them, that would help a lot going into 2013.

[Naphtali]

So Trevor Scott sucking is adequate reason to be paying Seymour $15 mil?

.

Trevor Scott is an example of how the board overeacts to a guy having measured productivity, and beliving there's more when their isn't, like when certain people in the forum (not you necessarily) imply that Seymour is taking snaps from Bryant or Houston. Sometimes a player like Bryant may flash in limited moments similar to Trevor Scott, but more times than not...all it is is flash. Its not like Seymour is holding back monsters ready to terrorize the QB. Those guy are situational...nothing wrong with that.
Seymour's heart....well only he knows, He was brought in to make the D Line better, and get us to the playoffs...I think he did all he could so I wont disrespect him... aside its his last year on the deal he very likely wont be back anyhow, but he'll want another big deal from someone....so we'll see

[cheapshotartist]

If people have a personal problem with seymour.....fine, but dont disrespect this dude

*uck seymour! What has he done to make our defense any better? This clown will make 16 mil in 2012 why should I respect his azz? Win some football games! He is just like sapp, a use to be who is stealing money.

[regret]

Sapp, the guy we moved from his natural position to play DE in a 3-4, where we couldn't maximize his talents? We shouldn't have brought him in if we were going to take him out of the 3-tech. We like to bag on these dudes when they don't produce but Sapp is the poster boy for what's been wrong with the organization for years, along with a guy like DeAngelo Hall. Who the **** thought that'd be a good idea, bringing a small zone corner into this defense? And at that price? I love what Al has done for the team and the league but these past ten years he's made some moves that just leave you scratching your head. So look, now we'll get to see what these guys can do finally, and that's a good thing. No more excuses.

[HITMAN]

Fair enough. I agree that it would be nice to bring players in as rookies and watch them develop into great leaders like Ray Lewis in Baltimore, or Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. At this point anyone stepping up to be a great leader would be nice.

You have to put things in perspective though. I believe we will see more development in players simply because there will be more consistency throughout the organization. Coaches will be in positions longer than 18 months. When you have a revolving door policy and are limited in what you can do it is hard to have any type of player development. I believe this is why we saw most Raiders players take longer to develop into decent players.

[coogi]

Fair enough. I agree that it would be nice to bring players in as rookies and watch them develop into great leaders like Ray Lewis in Baltimore, or Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. At this point anyone stepping up to be a great leader would be nice.

who knows maybe mcclain steps up and becomes that leader..then next offseason he can get the whole defense together and workout with him in decatur

[als_shadow]

Trevor Scott is an example of how the board overeacts to a guy having measured productivity, and beliving there's more when their isn't, like when certain people in the forum (not you necessarily) imply that Seymour is taking snaps from Bryant or Houston. Sometimes a player like Bryant may flash in limited moments similar to Trevor Scott, but more times than not...all it is is flash. Its not like Seymour is holding back monsters ready to terrorize the QB. Those guy are situational...nothing wrong with that.
Seymour's heart....well only he knows, He was brought in to make the D Line better, and get us to the playoffs...I think he did all he could so I wont disrespect him... aside its his last year on the deal he very likely wont be back anyhow, but he'll want another big deal from someone....so we'll see

Nice to see some real balance on the board. Too often the balance on the board is like at Foxy news... we hear from a bunch of propagandists and then they interview the town drunk for a view from the other side. Who, besides Foxy news, gets their advice from the town drunk?

Thanks. +1

[cheapshotartist]

Sapp, the guy we moved from his natural position to play DE in a 3-4, where we couldn't maximize his talents? We shouldn't have brought him in if we were going to take him out of the 3-tech. We like to bag on these dudes when they don't produce but Sapp is the poster boy for what's been wrong with the organization for years, along with a guy like DeAngelo Hall. Who the **** thought that'd be a good idea, bringing a small zone corner into this defense? And at that price? I love what Al has done for the team and the league but these past ten years he's made some moves that just leave you scratching your head. So look, now we'll get to see what these guys can do finally, and that's a good thing. No more excuses.

I agree with you 100% Son, you can't put a square peg in a round hole unless you do it the Raider way. Which did not work!