Jaws QB Countdown Palmer ranked

[NoClapsPlease]

i think whats not said enough is how much hue improved the offensive line, i think campbell had about 4 sacks all season before he went down for good

im just scared that this zbs crap will make this line that obviously excells in PBS will take a step back in ZBS

who know's, but i'm hoping the 3 good guys on our line can make up for the 2 others who are questionable.

[regret]

Retread? Really? Almost every coach in the NFL is a retread. That's a weak argument against Knapp. And it's amazing how you have these psychic powers to see into the future to know that knapp would never have been an OC again if it wasn't here. Nice opinion but it's far from fact. The guy has been an OC for 9 years of his career and has been thought of enough to be hired on in 4 different teams as such. And then he became the QB coach of the texans. Man that's a huge demotion (sarcasm). He was so terrible that a team with Super Bowl expectations hired him to work directly with the most important player on the team. Yea Knapp sucks :

Yeah, there is a very good reason people around the league tended to discount what coaches did during their stay in Oakland the past decade. I'm not trying to say everyone we've shipped out of here has been a great coach or anything but very rarely have they failed to quickly catch on elsewhere.

[JUSTWINBABY9111]

Yeah, there is a very good reason people around the league tended to discount what coaches did during their stay in Oakland the past decade. I'm not trying to say everyone we've shipped out of here has been a great coach or anything but very rarely have they failed to quickly catch on elsewhere.

Because we were forced to make positional coaches, head coaches and coordinators. They still have value. Knapp was known for his work with QBs, that's why he was a QB coach. That's where his value is at now. That's a far cry from running an offense. I understand we all want success this year. I expect success, Knapp is a debatable hire, but we were limited in who we could hire because of the new rule about coaches under contract. So why not debate that? At least acknowledge CP could have a moving pocket collapse on him because league wide we are in the bottom 10 in OL rankings, and it's a new offense. Depth is a question mark and right tackle.

27. Oakland Raiders

LT: Jared Veldheer*
LG: Cooper Carlisle*
C: Stefen Wisniewski*
RG: Mike Brisiel
RT: Khalif Barnes*

Top reserves: T/G Joseph Barksdale, G/T Tony Bergstrom, OG Zach Hurd, T/G Ed Wang, C/G Alex Parsons.

Overview: Another team in offensive renovation, the Raiders have done away with former coach Hue Jackson's power-blocking scheme in favor of new OC Greg Knapp's zone system. This unit had better be ready to run block. In nine years as a coordinator, Knapp's offenses have finished in the league's top five in rushing attempts seven times. Veldheer and Wisniewski are athletic enough for the new scheme, and Brisiel has 47 starts in it. Carlisle has history as a zone-blocking guard. Oakland's problematic position projects to be right tackle, where the Raiders lack compelling alternatives to power blocker Barnes. Barksdale possesses heavy feet, and Oakland doesn't have a single reserve with starting experience. This unit looks solid from left tackle to right guard, but the fifth spot is a potentially large trouble area and there's no fallback option in place.

2012 Offensive Line Rankings - Matchups - Rotoworld.com

[Towner13]

"Huh" to he was coming off a successful year as an OC? The best we had in 10 years? I read Mel Kiper, I read the good and bad. I've read a lot. Our OL is seen as a huge question mark in a lot of articles. He could be successful, but my opinion that he may tank is just as valid. And his failures will have to do with OL and his play calling. He is not proven, Hue was proven. He made us improve. We improved with an OL rank in the high 20s. Somebody posting "excuses" being made before we play a down. And asking why we had no "excuses" in 2011. Hue was the OC the year before, that's why. That's all I said. With question marks on the OL, and the "brains behind the operation" the new scheme could be a total unproductive failure, and it would even be a surprise. I am in the camp that demands improvement, if not somebody pays. I sense the future like the other guys says.. The future says a couple of guys will rag CP all year long, and so I was defending the guy. I believe he has the ability to be productive. Reading about 2011 and no excuses is laughable, he was the ****ing OC.

Not sure I agree with the O-Line being a question mark.

Not that I am surprised at the lack of recognition of ANY O-lineman, but I personally thought that Stefan Wiz deserved way more press for the solid (REALLY solid) season he turned in as a rookie. Now to learn that he played the whole thing with a torn labrum? Even more impressive.

Oakland Raiders' Stefen Wisniewski Had a Better Rookie Season than Anyone Realized - Bay Bridge Banter - SB Nation Bay Area

And Veldheer ? C'mon man... Give a little credit.

I know we all had some valid arguments on if some of us were jumping on the Veldheer bandwagon early after his 2010 season... but after last year??? The kid gave up only 4 sacks all year with two statues of a QB's in Campbell and Palmer! Started all 16 games. had only 9 penalties all F-ing year! His performance against Jared Allen, completely shutting down and dominating the Sack leader for the 2011 season (22 sacks and not even a hurry against Veldheer) let me know that we DEFINITELY have one of the best Left Tackles in this damn league brother. And the best part? He's mean! You can tell he's an enforcer. He mixes it up after plays when other players don't act right, and blocks with a nasty streak on the run.
(Old vid, but it certainly shows that the guy can finish blocks.)

As for Mike Brisiel... he was one of the best run blocking pieces (Foster and Tate averaged 5.9 yds running off of RG/MIke Brisiel, source: ProFootballFocus.com) on a team that ended 2nd in rushing yards in the NFL. On top of that... He gave up the least sacks on the team (Not surprising a Guard gave up the least, but nevertheless.)

Cooper Carlisle is a solid vet and should be better playing between Wiz and Veldheer this year.

And then there's Khalif Barnes/Joe Barksdale/Tony Bergstrom.... I personally think Barksdale is the right man for the job, but we shall see. For all those people saying "Barnes sucks"... They are just getting mad because he is a pea-brain, idiot. Guy can't play without a penalty. However, on his talent, abilities and Power? Barnes could be one of our best (Granted, a pea-brain is damn near a deal killer on O-line, which is why I want Barksdale)..

Make no mistake.... This O-line is the most complete part of this team, in my humble opinion

[regret]

Except we will have a top five rushing attack, so whatever rotoworld wants to rank us will be largely irrelevant by oh, say, week two. I'm not sure what your point is here wrt ex-coaches; seems like a bit of a non sequitur.

Could be lack of caffeine, though. Long day.

[Towner13]

Except we will have a top five rushing attack, so whatever rotoworld wants to rank us will be largely irrelevant by oh, say, week two. I'm not sure what your point is here wrt ex-coaches; seems like a bit of a non sequitur.

Could be lack of caffeine, though. Long day.

Yep...

I read another article that said the Raiders RT position (Barnes and Barksdale, largely) counted for 16 of their 25 sacks.

If that is true, that means 9 sacks total for the rest of the team and only 4 sacks from Veldheer who had the pleasure of seeing Tamba Hali twice, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, Aldon Smith (*14 sacks), Connor Barwin, Von Miller, Elvis Dummervil, Cliff Avril, Andre Carter, Antwaan Barnes, etc... etc...

That is the WHO's who list of the NFL Sack leaders from last year.... All, going against Veldheer. 4 sacks given up. Show your love JUSTWIN911... Show your love.

[JUSTWINBABY9111]

Yep...

I read another article that said the Raiders RT position (Barnes and Barksdale, largely) counted for 16 of their 25 sacks.

If that is true, that means 9 sacks total for the rest of the team and only 4 sacks from Veldheer who had the pleasure of seeing Tamba Hali twice, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, Aldon Smith (*14 sacks), Connor Barwin, Von Miller, Elvis Dummervil, Cliff Avril, Andre Carter, Antwaan Barnes, etc... etc...

That is the WHO's who list of the NFL Sack leaders from last year.... All, going against Veldheer. 4 sacks given up. Show your love JUSTWIN911... Show your love.

In another post I stated Veldheer was ranked in Top 100 on Prisco's list, and he will be top 100 on the NFL list next year. He has the potential to be one of the best LT in the league. I have no doubt we will be in the top 10 of the league rushing. Fargas had a 1000 yard season. It's the pass protection, and it's getting it done when it counts. It's scoring points, winning games. It's having 5 guys than can pass block and run block. 5 guys playing cohesively. It's having a guy go down and being able to replace him. Any place you check rankings will be the same. It's the depth that's a concern. Good depth for a power scheme. This scheme just has to be proven. Proven they can pass block in it. They could struggle in pass protection. Knapp needs to be proven. Do I think we should have hired him to take us to a Super Bowl? Hell no. Then why hire him? Been asking myself that question for 10 years man. I guess we have to take the little victories, like a division title. We have a 10-6 team talent wise. I wish I could feel like Knapp is a winner. That's the key, he is not a winner. A coach needs to have that pedigree. He does not have that.

When I mentioned former coaches, my point is for the last 10 years not one deserved to be head coach, DC or OC. To say coaches went on to other jobs means nothing to me. They just weren't guys that many teams sought for HC, OC, DC. Not one guy hired did we think was deserving and always a let down. Knapp is no exception in this new era. That is all, I'm on a soap box I guess. I'm done, lol. I want nothing more than to take the next step and win the division. And Knapp exhausted his opportunities in this league as OC, I guess I'm a fortune teller on that one.

[StickShift]

Lack of sacks doesn't lie when it comes to five best tackle tandems - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

[Rainman56]

but as you stated people around here will support their guy but throw the other guy under the bus.

Nothing like a good throwing under the bus.The carnage on the boards is so entertaining

[paul0660]

Nothing like a good throwing under the bus.The carnage on the boards is so entertaining

True dat.

I am looking forward to this season like none other in the last decade. The Raiders WILL win the division, and get to the second round of the playoffs or beyond.. The reason that was impossible before is gone.

RIP Al.

[Okie]

[QUOTE=MadBomber24;3713647
But with that said. If Palmer goes out and has good numbers and we still lose I won't be blaming Palmer for that. If we are losing games 35-28 every week but Palmer is throwing 2 or 3 TDs most games then it will be clear to me that Palmer is a better QB then JC regardless of who's record is better.[/QUOTE]
Thats the problem though. So what if he throws 3 touchdowns per game, what if that comes with his average 2 interceptions too? People look at his numbers and think hes a great quarterback, sure but they too easily dismiss how the negative side of his game affects the win loss column. Does 3 Touchdowns and 300 yards negate 2 interceptions? Logically:

2 interceptions equals = 10 less carries for DMAC
10 less carries for DMAC = 50 less rushing yards per game
50 less rushing yards per game = much more time remaining on the clock
More time on the clock = more exposure of a suspect defense
More exposure of a suspect defense = more points against
More points against = more passing, even less carries for DMAC

You see, that one extra turnover a game is much more critical than "just one more interception". Thats not even accounting for DMACs explosiveness and those yards and scores could very well be much higher than that on average. This team was successful with Jason Campbell not so much because of Jason but because he allowed our team to play to its strength. Its strength is Darren McFadden, no ifs ands or buts about it. Leaning on Darren put points on the board and kept our defense off of the field.

Thats why im saying it all depends on Carson Palmer. The guy doesnt need to throw for 300 yards or 4 touchdowns. If the guy throws for 150 yards per game, 1 or 2 touchdowns but is able to keep his touchdown to interception rate at or close to 2:1, this team will exceed 8 wins. Just like it would have last year had he (we) avoided the turnovers. You can cry about DMAC, you can cry about the defense but the bottom line is, the turnovers cost this team the playoffs last year. Avoid that, this team can and should improve.

[MadBomber24]

I get all that and know there will be games like that. But is that different then when say Peyton Manning throws 4 INTs in a win (hey it's happened)? I don't subscribe to the "normal" way of doing things or looking at things. I'm not arguing with you okie because I agree with much of what you are saying. But I wasn't one of those who judged JC when he played poorly and I'm not doing it with Palmer either. Atleast not after just a few games. Only way I'm going to blame any QB for a loss is if the defense plays well and the offense struggles to move the ball and put up points (esspecially the passing game).

Thats the problem though. So what if he throws 3 touchdowns per game, what if that comes with his average 2 interceptions too? People look at his numbers and think hes a great quarterback, sure but they too easily dismiss how the negative side of his game affects the win loss column. Does 3 Touchdowns and 300 yards negate 2 interceptions? Logically:

2 interceptions equals = 10 less carries for DMAC
10 less carries for DMAC = 50 less rushing yards per game
50 less rushing yards per game = much more time remaining on the clock
More time on the clock = more exposure of a suspect defense
More exposure of a suspect defense = more points against
More points against = more passing, even less carries for DMAC

You see, that one extra turnover a game is much more critical than "just one more interception". Thats not even accounting for DMACs explosiveness and those yards and scores could very well be much higher than that on average. This team was successful with Jason Campbell not so much because of Jason but because he allowed our team to play to its strength. Its strength is Darren McFadden, no ifs ands or buts about it. Leaning on Darren put points on the board and kept our defense off of the field.

Thats why im saying it all depends on Carson Palmer. The guy doesnt need to throw for 300 yards or 4 touchdowns. If the guy throws for 150 yards per game, 1 or 2 touchdowns but is able to keep his touchdown to interception rate at or close to 2:1, this team will exceed 8 wins. Just like it would have last year had he (we) avoided the turnovers. You can cry about DMAC, you can cry about the defense but the bottom line is, the turnovers cost this team the playoffs last year. Avoid that, this team can and should improve.

[ecnirp]

[OTF]

i think whats not said enough is how much hue improved the offensive line, i think campbell had about 4 sacks all season before he went down for good

im just scared that this zbs crap will make this line that obviously excells in PBS will take a step back in ZBS

who know's, but i'm hoping the 3 good guys on our line can make up for the 2 others who are questionable.

The ZBS refers to the methods used to block in the RUN game. Our Oline is quick enough for that style but strong enough for the Power blocking and this should make them even more dangerous in the run game. Pass blocking wise it is the same regardless. Where most teams struggle in pass blocking is because the quicker but smaller Oline aren't strong enough in pass blocking but we are returning 4 starters from last year (WizII, Vehldeer, Barnes & Carlisle) with an upgrade at RG. If these players were going to struggle in pass blocking they would have last year but pass blocking wise the ZBS & PBS have very little differences. The rookie might beat Carlisle but at any rate, these oline held up fine in the pass blocking last year and will only be better this year. The WCO will get the ball away quicker and Palmer reads a defense way better than your boy Campbell.

Charlie Casserly Says Jason Campbell Is "Too Indecisive" - YouTube

[NoClapsPlease]

The ZBS refers to the methods used to block in the RUN game. Our Oline is quick enough for that style but strong enough for the Power blocking and this should make them even more dangerous in the run game. Pass blocking wise it is the same regardless. Where most teams struggle in pass blocking is because the quicker but smaller Oline aren't strong enough in pass blocking but we are returning 4 starters from last year (WizII, Vehldeer, Barnes & Carlisle) with an upgrade at RG. If these players were going to struggle in pass blocking they would have last year but pass blocking wise the ZBS & PBS have very little differences. The rookie might beat Carlisle but at any rate, these oline held up fine in the pass blocking last year and will only be better this year. The WCO will get the ball away quicker and Palmer reads a defense way better than your boy Campbell.

Charlie Casserly Says Jason Campbell Is "Too Indecisive" - YouTube

i'm aware

i wasnt implying that it would change

i was stating the sack number to prove a point on how good the line performed

why are you posting that stupid video about campbell again?

you realize that video is based on campbell being in a WCO right? a system he doesnt fit

guess what? Palmer doesnt fit it either

you'll see.