Huff looking forward to "real" defense w/out Al Davis calling it.

[RAIDKEN]

If, big IF, this is what was truly needed to bring out the talents, desires and overall ability of our top guys; then we may be onto something this year.
I personally think that this will be a huge year for guys like Huff, McClain , Shaughnessy and Seymour. Either they will step up and truly play or they'll have no
more excuses!

I can't wait for football season to get here this year.

Agreed! I am so damn excited!

[MileHighRaider]

I am glad I started this thread if for no other reason we Raider faithful still are coming to grips with the absence of Al Davis and what he meant and where we go next.

I think it's been a great thread. Obviously some of us differ in our opinions, but it's been highly charged discussion and mostly respectful.

The death of of an owner for any other team is not the same in terms of the product on the field. So I see it as healthy that we discuss Al for quite some time. At times it will get a bit unruly. We are Raider fans after all -- that part of Al will be around for a awhile. It is a bit easier for us to do this in an anonymous website setting than for a player to do so in the media! So I think Huff probably did not show good discretion on his part and I agree with those who are saying he should STFU and start making plays. He should have just said he is looking forward to a new scheme and wants to improve HIS play.

I think this is a great point. As I said earlier, you can agree or disagree with Mr. Davis' approach but let's show a little respect for the man. Particularly the bolded part - that's exactly what I'm saying.



(edit) oops - hit "post" before finishing my cropping (/edit)

[heavyD]

Only in Raider nation could an argument break out about the worst defense in the history of the franchise where the schemes are actually being defended. A defense that has been awful for decades now and place blame on the players when the outdated scheme has never stopped the run no matter who's lining up on the field or the puppet coach that year. Al's defense stinks at stopping modern NFL offenses. End of story and debate. Huff's right and the guys still hanging on Al's nutsack are wrong.

[kinz]

Only in Raider nation could an argument break out about the worst defense in the history of the franchise where the schemes are actually being defended. A defense that has been awful for decades now and place blame on the players when the outdated scheme has never stopped the run no matter who's lining up on the field or the puppet coach that year. Al's defense stinks at stopping modern NFL offenses. End of story and debate. Huff's right and the guys still hanging on Al's nutsack are wrong.

Good quality rant, and one I agree with completely. You forgot one aspect though ... after years of rewarding decent play in a contract year with highest paid at position salaries, keeping people for years despite awful play, the guys on defense have no heart now. They play when they want.

[heavyD]

Good quality rant, and one I agree with completely. You forgot one aspect though ... after years of rewarding decent play in a contract year with highest paid at position salaries, keeping people for years despite awful play, the guys on defense have no heart now. They play when they want.

Yep and who's the guy that was handing out those terrible contracts and ensuring his scholarship players played regardless of ability or effectiveness? The same guy enforcing a 1970's defensive scheme 30 years past it's expiry date.

[RunOvrByHubbard]

^^this^^ and signings like Javon Walker. Wishful thinking on Al's part rather than solid football analysis. Sure he could still find one late (like Ford for example) -or was Al really in that much charge near the end? They told us he was. We needed a GM in charge indepedent of Al many, many years ago but that wasn't going to happen. It will all start playing out for real in 3 months.

[MadBomber24]

No matter how much you hate the old scheme and want to blame it for our defensive failures (and there is no doubt in my mind that it has led to a big part of our struggles) the fact is that we have also had players in great position to make plays every game and they have failed to do so. The players absolutely have to take some of the blame. They might have been put in "impossible" situations as one player said in an interview last year (forget who, Nnamdi maybe? Im not sure) but they have also found themselves in position to make plays that would have won us games and failed to do so. A dropped INT, not making a play on a ball when in perfect position to do so, countless missed tackles that had absolutely nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with the players ability or effort. So while I agree with those who say our defensive schemes were terrible, I disagree when you say that the new scheme will allow the same players to flourish. We may see a few start to play much better but the truth is that most of the guys that didnt perform in the old scheme wont be able to perform in the new one. We lacked talent in a lot of places on defense no matter what scheme we ran. So some of those disapointing veteran players we have arent going to get much (if any) better because of the new scheme. Im hoping it helps those young players who only played a year or two in the old D.

[HITMAN]

The operative word here folks is accountability regardless if it was the owner, coaching staff or players. This was a concept that for whatever reason ceased to exist with the Oakland Raiders. Now that everyone in the organization will be accountable we won't see a lot of the garbage we've seen over the last decade...

[MileHighRaider]

Only in Raider nation could an argument break out about the worst defense in the history of the franchise where the schemes are actually being defended. A defense that has been awful for decades now and place blame on the players when the outdated scheme has never stopped the run no matter who's lining up on the field or the puppet coach that year. Al's defense stinks at stopping modern NFL offenses. End of story and debate. Huff's right and the guys still hanging on Al's nutsack are wrong.

Oh really? So it's the owner's fault when a player misses a tackle? Or fails to knock down the ball the guy he's covering ends up catching even though the defender is there stride for stride with him? It's Mr. Davis' fault that a d-lineman jumps offsides or a linebacker hits a receiver in a cross route before the ball gets there?

Absolute hogwash.

Your logic is absurd. And nobody here is hanging on Al's nutsack... many of us are happy to have an updated scheme, but that doesn't solve all the woes in Oakland. We're calling for personal accountability among the players who have failed at the very basic skills their position requires on every other team in the NFL. That's the point some of you geniuses fail to get.

You folks hanging on Huff's nutsack should rethink this position of failure.

[raidertone]

Oh really? So it's the owner's fault when a player misses a tackle? Or fails to knock down the ball the guy he's covering ends up catching even though the defender is there stride for stride with him? It's Mr. Davis' fault that a d-lineman jumps offsides or a linebacker hits a receiver in a cross route before the ball gets there?

Absolute hogwash.

Your logic is absurd. And nobody here is hanging on Al's nutsack... many of us are happy to have an updated scheme, but that doesn't solve all the woes in Oakland. We're calling for personal accountability among the players who have failed at the very basic skills their position requires on every other team in the NFL. That's the point some of you geniuses fail to get.

You folks hanging on Huff's nutsack should rethink this position of failure.

No disrespect bro but I believe you are forgetting the reason there was no personal accountability amongst the players. Al, rest in peace, had all his coaches balls on his mantle...they never had full authority to instill disclipline, if the players didn't like something they would just go to Al directly...JMHO...but I agree with everybody that good times are ahead with all the updates to the organization.

[MileHighRaider]

No disrespect bro but I believe you are forgetting the reason there was no personal accountability amongst the players. Al, rest in peace, had all his coaches balls on his mantle...they never had full authority to instill disclipline, if the players didn't like something they would just go to Al directly...JMHO...but I agree with everybody that good times are ahead with all the updates to the organization.

What part of "personal accountability" do the Coaches own? "Personal" means the players themselves. I'm not necessarily disagreeing we'll see some improvement with our recent coaching changes, but if the players don't own their accountability, no amount of coaching will help.

Sorry to rant a bit, but I think this is a problem not just with the Raiders but a lot of our society. To many people "personal accountability" belongs to somebody else. It's that person's problem I'm not personally accountable for my actions. Sorry, but that's BS. Coaches can and should help reinforce discipline, but the players themselves (and all of us in our society) need to own our own sh-t.

[cheapshotartist]

No matter how much you hate the old scheme and want to blame it for our defensive failures (and there is no doubt in my mind that it has led to a big part of our struggles) the fact is that we have also had players in great position to make plays every game and they have failed to do so. The players absolutely have to take some of the blame. They might have been put in "impossible" situations as one player said in an interview last year (forget who, Nnamdi maybe? Im not sure) but they have also found themselves in position to make plays that would have won us games and failed to do so. A dropped INT, not making a play on a ball when in perfect position to do so, countless missed tackles that had absolutely nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with the players ability or effort. So while I agree with those who say our defensive schemes were terrible, I disagree when you say that the new scheme will allow the same players to flourish. We may see a few start to play much better but the truth is that most of the guys that didnt perform in the old scheme wont be able to perform in the new one. We lacked talent in a lot of places on defense no matter what scheme we ran. So some of those disapointing veteran players we have arent going to get much (if any) better because of the new scheme. Im hoping it helps those young players who only played a year or two in the old D.

^^^THIS^^^

Oh really? So it's the owner's fault when a player misses a tackle? Or fails to knock down the ball the guy he's covering ends up catching even though the defender is there stride for stride with him? It's Mr. Davis' fault that a d-lineman jumps offsides or a linebacker hits a receiver in a cross route before the ball gets there?

Absolute hogwash.

Your logic is absurd. And nobody here is hanging on Al's nutsack... many of us are happy to have an updated scheme, but that doesn't solve all the woes in Oakland. We're calling for personal accountability among the players who have failed at the very basic skills their position requires on every other team in the NFL. That's the point some of you geniuses fail to get.

You folks hanging on Huff's nutsack should rethink this position of failure.

Word, we have some players on defense who are only in the NFL because they play for us. Over the next few years a lot of these over paid clowns will be on the street.

[dmauke]

The operative word here folks is accountability regardless if it was the owner, coaching staff or players. This was a concept that for whatever reason ceased to exist with the Oakland Raiders. Now that everyone in the organization will be accountable we won't see a lot of the garbage we've seen over the last decade...

Damn straight... tired of the finger pointing. It's been going on for years.

[MadBomber24]

The operative word here folks is accountability regardless if it was the owner, coaching staff or players. This was a concept that for whatever reason ceased to exist with the Oakland Raiders. Now that everyone in the organization will be accountable we won't see a lot of the garbage we've seen over the last decade...

Absolutely. I am of the belief that this will lead to more improvment then the scheme being different. As much as I didnt like how simple the old scheme was I think the loss of accountability was our biggest downfall. Not allowing coaches to handle the team without Al stepping in was a huge issue. Just the fact that the players know that the coaches are runing the show and that the owner wont come in and change anything after its been taught will have a big impact on the psychy of the player IMO. Esspecially over the next couple of years when guys that would have made the roster based on their ability and not their production start getting cut.

[MileHighRaider]

Absolutely. I am of the belief that this will lead to more improvment then the scheme being different. As much as I didnt like how simple the old scheme was I think the loss of accountability was our biggest downfall. Not allowing coaches to handle the team without Al stepping in was a huge issue. Just the fact that the players know that the coaches are runing the show and that the owner wont come in and change anything after its been taught will have a big impact on the psychy of the player IMO. Esspecially over the next couple of years when guys that would have made the roster based on their ability and not their production start getting cut.

Not necessarily disagreeing but shouldn't the players have held themselves accountable in the first place? If they had, I contend we would have been successful even in a so-called outdated scheme. Think of the games we lost that would have been won if we had just made that one tackle or just NOT jumped offsides or - ahem - not intentionally thrown the opposing QB into the ground after the whistle blew repeatedly.



Sorry, I can't give these guys a pass. Yeah I'm rooting for them but they had better clean their act up yesterday if they want me as a fan (and I'm 100% certain they all do).