Jamarcus Russell" highest grade ever"...Draft is a crap shoot...

[ecnirp]

I thought he wanted Calvin Johnson with the pick, but he also held Quinn in a higher esteem than Russell

You could be right. I just remember Al mentioning both Quinn and Johnson in the Kiffin firing press conference. And since Al was set on a QB he wanted Quinn to be the pick I assumed.

[Raidermofojeff]

Support for the McClain pick was "near unanimous" and also for the Palmer trade. Doesn't change the fact that there were people who had been around here for a while that were against one or both. Same thing with the Russell pick. There were people who wanted others at that pick. For me, it was Peterson (hopefully to trade down).

I think there are a large portion of people who enthusiatically support any move by the team. There were people who pretty clearly spoke out against certain moves even though it wasn't the popular thing to say. I didn't care for the McClain pick and was called every name in the book for saying so.

To make a convincing point against someone, it would be best to show where they themselves were in favor of a player like Russell, etc.

You given me little to disagree with except for your comments on the Palmer trade...Support for that was far less than unanomous....On that I respectfully disagree.

[Raidermofojeff]

You're absolutely right Jeff. Those of us against the pick were a very small group.

The vast majority of us were wrong about Russell....I supported the pick outside of my long held belief that O-line should always come first. As I said earlier, I believe in retrospect that Joe Thomas should of been the pick. We needed O-line desperately, and I generally support selecting O-line even when the need is far less great, as I do now. Maybe theres a satisfaction in being on the "I told ya so" side of this. I'll never know....There are a hell of a lot of us who were snake bit...I'll never again support drafting a early a QB with less than 2 or 3 years starting experience....A lesson learned....

[Palehorse]

The vast majority of us were wrong about Russell....I supported the pick outside of my long held belief that O-line should always come first. As I said earlier, I believe in retrospect that Joe Thomas should of been the pick. We needed O-line desperately, and I generally support selecting O-line even when the need is far less great, as I do now. Maybe theres a satisfaction in being on the "I told ya so" side of this. I'll never know....There are a hell of a lot of us who were snake bit...I'll never again support drafting a early a QB with less than 2 or 3 years starting experience....A lesson learned....

now i want a snake bite...

I agree with the oline aspect. It pains me to think of how many quarterbacks flopped because of a bad oline or no weapons. People think they can just throw in a qb and it fixes all of the teams problems. The Vikings this year are a great example of that.

[ecnirp]

now i want a snake bite...

I agree with the oline aspect. It pains me to think of how many quarterbacks flopped because of a bad oline or no weapons. People think they can just throw in a qb and it fixes all of the teams problems. The Vikings this year are a great example of that.

Indeed. Young QBs need a good oline. Cam Newton was lucky enough to have 2 Pro Bowl players blocking for him.

As big as clusterf*** JaMarcus was. I was a bit surprised by his 2nd year #s not being worse. He had Kwame freaking Harris blocking for him.

Ugh...between Harris and Russell...Yeesh.

[SF Mikey]

Jamarcus Russell" highest grade ever"...Draft is a crap shoot...

I assume the highest grade ever only applies to his physical skills displayed during his scripted workout session not the overall grade that teams assessed to a prospect. JaMarcus had a history of off the field issues at LSU including lack of conditioning / work ethic so it shouldn't have surprised anyone when he just sat on his fat a$$ once he got paid. No way that you invest the amount of guaranteed $$$ in somebody with that many red flags!!! It was an asinine pick that a solid GM like Reggie McKenzie never would have made.

The first option was to try to trade down or if no one was willing to trade down then take either Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas or Adrian Peterson. I am just glad that my favorite team won't be making these types of picks again with RM at the controls.

[huggeebear]

I assume the highest grade ever only applies to his physical skills displayed during his scripted workout session not the overall grade that teams assessed to a prospect. JaMarcus had a history of off the field issues at LSU including lack of conditioning / work ethic so it shouldn't have surprised anyone when he just sat on his fat a$$ once he got paid. No way that you invest the amount of guaranteed $$$ in somebody with that many red flags!!! It was an asinine pick that a solid GM like Reggie McKenzie never would have made.

The first option was to try to trade down or if no one was willing to trade down then take either Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas or Adrian Peterson. I am just glad that my favorite team won't be making these types of picks again with RM at the controls.

I broke the Like button with this post.

[cat444]

billick is an idiot anyway, since 10 years i look a lot of draftscouting sit , i can name to you more than 20 sites i look all week. i read everything i can find about college foot-ball , each year beginning december i made my own list of pick for the first 5 round and try to see what the raiders should pick. I can bet you 100$ than in november 2006 and december 2006 the name of jamarcus russell was rate in round 2 , his best spot was the second player take in round 2 , means 34 and i think it was at nfldrafcountdown or draftfutur. it's only after the game againt notre-dame than russel became a possible first round pick and more a possible first pick, i still have each report of 2007 draft. when al davis saw russell at his pro day he wanted him at any price just because he can throw the ball very far. i remember kiffin try to explain calvin johnson was the better player, i remember scott wright of nfl draftcountdown and mel kipper said the raiders make a hudge mistake to take russell over jonhson and petersen. now we know the big mistake it was. russel was just a big guy who can throw the ball very far, he had no good judgement , cannot read defense and more had no love for the foot-ball game. billick can say what he want but at that time a lot of scout had a red flag on russell.

[Raidermofojeff]

Indeed. Young QBs need a good oline. Cam Newton was lucky enough to have 2 Pro Bowl players blocking for him.

As big as clusterf*** JaMarcus was. I was a bit surprised by his 2nd year #s not being worse. He had Kwame freaking Harris blocking for him.

Ugh...between Harris and Russell...Yeesh.

Your history is a bit off bro....Don't forget about the scrubbyness that was Mario Henderson...Who played only a hand full of decent games for us...


2007- Russell drafted -played in 4 games....Harris not yet on team..Henderson drafted 3rd rd

2008-We draft Dmac ....I wanted one of the Longs or Clady
Q.Harris joined team started 11 games...Mario Henderson played majority of snaps from game 11 on...
Mario pass protected well...Misleading fans to think we should bank the future on him.(After 4 fukking games)

2009 After reasonable performance by mario in 08 it's 09 and a good O-line class in the draft, what does Al do? we spend our first two picks on a WR and Saftey.....I'm incredibly discouraged! Another year of Henderson and co.The 2009 season concludes and the whole world knows Henderson is a scrub...

2010- in a mediocre O-line class we manage to find a gem in the third rd (Veeldheer). Takes Hendersons job in fairly short order

2011- in another so-so O-line class we reach in 2 rd and so far we have another gem and apparent franchise Center(Wiz)

It's only the last 2 years we started getting good at drafting O-line again.......

As for Russell, sure the team failed him in delivering an O-line, but him quitting on the team is beyond excuse...
Now as usual I'm pulling for our first pick to be O-line....Guard this time...

[dragonsieu]

"Great white hope" comes to mind, or in this case, "Great QB hope". I think I can speak for every Raider fan that we all wanted him to succeed. We were yearning for a savior so bad that it blinded our logic. Everything pointed to not taking a risk on him during the draft with the #1 pick, but sometimes logic doesn't prevail, because of gut feeling. Texas hold em comes to mind. There are times we gamble even though we know the odds aren't great. I'm having a hard time understanding the logic after the fact, that people are still justifying the pick. I just don't see how anyone can diagnose past his work ethics. Everyone has a CHANCE to be great with work ethics, but when it stops there, it's just impossible to diagnose past it. It was a mistake plain and simple, learn from it. What's the lesson? Without a rookie cap limit, taking a position where work ethic is most important, you don't gamble with the #1 pick. It's much easier to take a risk now, it won't set you back like it used to, but what's the recurring theme nowadays? Take a look around, the theme is "Character Counts". It always did, to some organizations at least, but more so now, as JR set a new precedent concerning work ethics. I can understand drafts where it might be the default choice, but that draft had a few safer options.

Nothing is certain, but you certainly can make an educated guess. Go ahead, make a search, and you will see the more knowledgeable fans made some great points on why not to take JR. Our own Raider fans were at best 50/50 on JR and the only justification I read were, QB is the most important position. Which begs the question, why gamble at the most important position that requires the best work ethic? The intention was good. Al's intentions are always meant well, but sometimes good intentions aren't enough. Al himself even admitted he made a mistake, that's all you need to know. I never got the "Messiah" love for JR back then, and I don't get the love for him now. As far as Luck and RG3 goes, I'll bet you they aren't questioning their work ethics and when you add in their talent, experience, those are no brainer picks.

[VEfreak]

And this thread has illuminated exactly zero new information.

[Rainman56]

And this thread has illuminated exactly zero new information.

[danax]

Coming off of the Bed and Breakfast year and with Russell's throwing prowess, it was the perfect storm sucker's bet for Uncle Al to indulge in the thrill of his fetish and pick him. I don't think anyone, here or anywhere, foresaw the disaster that it would become.

Part of me will miss Uncle Al's boom-or-bust picks.

[ecnirp]

billick is an idiot anyway, since 10 years i look a lot of draftscouting sit , i can name to you more than 20 sites i look all week. i read everything i can find about college foot-ball , each year beginning december i made my own list of pick for the first 5 round and try to see what the raiders should pick. I can bet you 100$ than in november 2006 and december 2006 the name of jamarcus russell was rate in round 2 , his best spot was the second player take in round 2 , means 34 and i think it was at nfldrafcountdown or draftfutur. it's only after the game againt notre-dame than russel became a possible first round pick and more a possible first pick, i still have each report of 2007 draft. when al davis saw russell at his pro day he wanted him at any price just because he can throw the ball very far. i remember kiffin try to explain calvin johnson was the better player, i remember scott wright of nfl draftcountdown and mel kipper said the raiders make a hudge mistake to take russell over jonhson and petersen. now we know the big mistake it was. russel was just a big guy who can throw the ball very far, he had no good judgement , cannot read defense and more had no love for the foot-ball game. billick can say what he want but at that time a lot of scout had a red flag on russell.

During a December game on SNF. I clearly remember Peter King saying long BEFORE the LSU/Notre Dame game that the top 2 QBs....JaMarcus and Quinn will be playing each other. Quinn was the slight favorite at that time. But yes JaMarcus was a 1st round pick...probably top 10.

And mock drafts are irrelevant. Cam Newton and RG3 werent top top picks on mock drafts in November of their last year in college either.

Oh and Peter King's word > Over Scott Wright from NFL Draftcountdown.com.

And here is Mel Kiper saying JaMarcus Russell may be a top 5 QB in 3 years. And comparing him to John Elway. Revisionist are gonna revision.

[Rainman56]

What kind of sick bastard makes a thread like this