Raiders GM McKenzie: Cost of Palmer trade doesn't bother me

[SLVR&BLK]

3 and half minutes to go, oakland down 3, what does campbell do? he throws the ball 50 yards for a TD

NO jacoby ford
NO DHB
and hell, didnt mcfadden get hurt late in this game also?

moral of the story is, campbell did what he was asked

if he needed to throw it, he delivered, thats why we won games with him. hate all you want.

if palmer chills out with the turnovers, plays smart football, i'll be pleased.

Campbell did have a good game that day, and i think back to the KC overtime win in 2010, he threw a nice ball to Ford in overtime.

But he didn't consistently deliver in the crunch passing the ball, theres a reason that nobody payed him to become their starter this year.

Think back to the games we won with Campbell, and almost every time we also had a good to great performance from Bush or McFadden.

I appreciate Campbell for what he did, but also realize he doesn't stand out as a difference maker.

[RaiderReckoning]

you are exactly right. Somehow asking Palmer to stop throwing picks is frowned upon around these parts.

Palmer needs to cut down on his INTs. McFadden needs to stay healthy. less peanlties by the team. etc..

I think I speak for most people when I say those are universally agreed upon sentiments.

[NoClapsPlease]

you are exactly right. Somehow asking Palmer to stop throwing picks is frowned upon around these parts.

exactly

how dare I make a rational statement such as that?

[Okie]

Campbell did have a good game that day, and i think back to the KC overtime win in 2010, he threw a nice ball to Ford in overtime.

But he didn't consistently deliver in the crunch passing the ball, theres a reason that nobody payed him to become their starter this year.

Think back to the games we won with Campbell, and almost every time we also had a good to great performance from Bush or McFadden.

I appreciate Campbell for what he did, but also realize he doesn't stand out as a difference maker.

I wont start a whole new other debate by providing you with number after number after number that completely deny what your stating. All i will say is this, people around here place way too much value on passing yards and completely undervalue smart decisions and taking care of the football. That is really all that needs to be said!

But,

If you really want to see some interesting stuff that defies what you read on this board every day, Jason Campbell Career Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Just scroll through the game logs and you see the irony. Your exactly right, the games we won with Campbell were typically days that DMAC and Bush ran the ball very well. What people forget and love to ignore is the FACT that Bush and DMAC were allowed to run the ball very well because our Quarterback made smart decisions, he moved the chains on 3rd down, he checked down, punted and kept the game close rather than forcing a ball which turned into an interceptions which forces us to play from behind and ultimately stop DMAC and Bush from getting more touches and having great days. You then look at the games that we got into shootouts, games where our defense struggled and we were forced to throw the ball a ton. Didnt happen often but when we did ask Campbell to throw it a bunch, the guy put up pretty respectable numbers in most of those games.

Once again, everyone here completly ignores the little things JC did well that allowed other players to excel and us to win football games. I wont debate with you that Campbell is better than Palmer because i dont believe that. What i do believe though is that in order for us to start winning football games, our offense needs to be similar to the offense we ran with Campbell and Palmer needs to play with more control and make better decisions as Jason did. With Carson Palmers higher level of ability, him playing more like JC would make this team very, very tough to beat.

I really do think thats what most people are saying.

[SLVR&BLK]

I wont start a whole new other debate by providing you with number after number after number that completely deny what your stating. All i will say is this, people around here place way too much value on passing yards and completely undervalue smart decisions and taking care of the football. That is really all that needs to be said!

But,

If you really want to see some interesting stuff that defies what you read on this board every day, Jason Campbell Career Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Just scroll through the game logs and you see the irony. Your exactly right, the games we won with Campbell were typically days that DMAC and Bush ran the ball very well. What people forget and love to ignore is the FACT that Bush and DMAC were allowed to run the ball very well because our Quarterback made smart decisions, he moved the chains on 3rd down, he checked down, punted and kept the game close rather than forcing a ball which turned into an interceptions which forces us to play from behind and ultimately stop DMAC and Bush from getting more touches and having great days. You then look at the games that we got into shootouts, games where our defense struggled and we were forced to throw the ball a ton. Didnt happen often but when we did ask Campbell to throw it a bunch, the guy put up pretty respectable numbers in most of those games.

Once again, everyone here completly ignores the little things JC did well that allowed other players to excel and us to win football games. I wont debate with you that Campbell is better than Palmer because i dont believe that. What i do believe though is that in order for us to start winning football games, our offense needs to be similar to the offense we ran with Campbell and Palmer needs to play with more control and make better decisions as Jason did. With Carson Palmers higher level of ability, him playing more like JC would make this team very, very tough to beat.

I really do think thats what most people are saying.

If Campbell 's style of play was so good somebody would have payed him 7-8 million a year to be their new starter.

Remember the 49ers and Pittsburgh games from 2010?
They stuffed the run and put some heat on Campbell and folded up like wet newspaper.

[Da Swami]

exactly

how dare I make a rational statement such as that?

What is frowned upon is the premise that is used to support the statement that appears to be rooted in an agenda and not an opinion.

I don't expect you to comprehend this obvious point either.

[Da Swami]

If Campbell 's style of play was so good somebody would have payed him 7-8 million a year to be their new starter.

Remember the 49ers and Pittsburgh games from 2010?
They stuffed the run and put some heat on Campbell and folded up like wet newspaper.

On whole I agree but that could be said of any QB.

[NoClapsPlease]

What is frowned upon is the premise that is used to support the statement that appears to be rooted in an agenda and not an opinion.

I don't expect you to comprehend this obvious point either.

the only ppl who say this, have an agenda of their own

my agenda is winning games, so yep, you caught me buddy!

[speedkills]

Okie the russell apologist remember that!!

[Okie]

If Campbell 's style of play was so good somebody would have payed him 7-8 million a year to be their new starter.

Remember the 49ers and Pittsburgh games from 2010?
They stuffed the run and put some heat on Campbell and folded up like wet newspaper.

Interesting, but did you know that in 2010, at about the same time Pittsburgh did the same thing to the Bengals and Palmer looked just as bad as Campbell did (rating below 50), alot of good quarterbacks folded up like a cheap newspaper against those defenses. Beyond that, you bring two games to the table out of 13, do you not find that ironic? We had zero running game in the Colts game and yet Campbell played decently, in several other games we leaned on the pass instead of the run and he put up decent production. In 2010 i think we averaged 156 yards per game rushing, the league average was under 115. How did Campbell fair in those games where our running game was just average or below average. Campbell played in 6 of those games and finished 3-3 in them, ironically, Carson was 2-4 in those types of games. It is unfair to use last year against Palmer at all but if you look at Palmers entire career, without that running game he too is well below .500 as a quarterback and his numbers dramatically drop. As a team, over the last 5 years, the Raiders are 7-32 with less than 115 yards rushing, thats with 5 different Quarterbacks.

The reason Campbell didnt get 7-8 million and somebodies starting quarterback is two fold. One, Jason didnt wait the game out for whatever reason and two (which is influenced #1) is that the guy isnt known as a great passer already. He suffered a broken collar bone so nobody has any idea how he recovers from that. Once again my friend, dont turn this into something it isnt. We arent saying Campbell is better than Palmer, Im not even stating he will be a great starter for any or every team. What i am saying is that with a weak defense, inconsistent wide receivers and a good running game, his style of play was better for this team than the alternative. The wins and losses with 3 different QBs, 2 styles of play show time and time again that this is a fact.

Jason Campbells style of play (with this team) won more football games than it lost. Carson Palmer (or Gradkowskis same style) showed time and time again that with this football team, it lost more games than it won. We have not dramatically upgraded our defense, we have not been shown that we can get consistent WR play from our group. With those things known and proven, it is without a doubt more beneficial for this team to play the Campbell way than it is to stray from that. Thats not an opinion, thats proven on paper over two years. You can then take Palmers career, look at the numbers and once again its not an opinion, its proven on paper that when his offense leans on a running game, he has success, stray from that and he has more failures.

Once again, based on that history of this team and Carson Palmer, i dont want Jason Campbell. I want our offense to lean on the running game and throw the ball less than 55% of the time. In that offense, if Carson Palmer can eliminate half of his bad decisions, this team will win more than 8 games and Carsons numbers will excel far beyond what Campbell may have been able to do.

This debate isnt about who, its about how!

[Okie]

Okie the russell apologist remember that!!

Yeah, I remember Oke the apologist stating:

Russell was part of the problem
Wide Receivers were part of the problem
Offensive Line was part of the problem
Defense was part of the problem
Coaching was part of the problem
Lack of continuity and development was part of the problem

And here we are, 3 years later:

No Jamarcus Russell
Now complaining about receivers
Now complaining about offensive line
Now complaining about Defense
Now complaining about coaching
Now complaining about lack of continuity

and again,

No Jamarcus Russell and yet, still no playoffs.

LOL tool,

I was so wrong wasnt i!

[JoeKiev]

Interesting, but did you know that in 2010, at about the same time Pittsburgh did the same thing to the Bengals and Palmer looked just as bad as Campbell did (rating below 50), alot of good quarterbacks folded up like a cheap newspaper against those defenses. Beyond that, you bring two games to the table out of 13, do you not find that ironic? We had zero running game in the Colts game and yet Campbell played decently, in several other games we leaned on the pass instead of the run and he put up decent production. In 2010 i think we averaged 156 yards per game rushing, the league average was under 115. How did Campbell fair in those games where our running game was just average or below average. Campbell played in 6 of those games and finished 3-3 in them, ironically, Carson was 2-4 in those types of games. It is unfair to use last year against Palmer at all but if you look at Palmers entire career, without that running game he too is well below .500 as a quarterback and his numbers dramatically drop. As a team, over the last 5 years, the Raiders are 7-32 with less than 115 yards rushing, thats with 5 different Quarterbacks.

The reason Campbell didnt get 7-8 million and somebodies starting quarterback is two fold. One, Jason didnt wait the game out for whatever reason and two (which is influenced #1) is that the guy isnt known as a great passer already. He suffered a broken collar bone so nobody has any idea how he recovers from that. Once again my friend, dont turn this into something it isnt. We arent saying Campbell is better than Palmer, Im not even stating he will be a great starter for any or every team. What i am saying is that with a weak defense, inconsistent wide receivers and a good running game, his style of play was better for this team than the alternative. The wins and losses with 3 different QBs, 2 styles of play show time and time again that this is a fact.

Jason Campbells style of play (with this team) won more football games than it lost. Carson Palmer (or Gradkowskis same style) showed time and time again that with this football team, it lost more games than it won. We have not dramatically upgraded our defense, we have not been shown that we can get consistent WR play from our group. With those things known and proven, it is without a doubt more beneficial for this team to play the Campbell way than it is to stray from that. Thats not an opinion, thats proven on paper over two years. You can then take Palmers career, look at the numbers and once again its not an opinion, its proven on paper that when his offense leans on a running game, he has success, stray from that and he has more failures.

Once again, based on that history of this team and Carson Palmer, i dont want Jason Campbell. I want our offense to lean on the running game and throw the ball less than 55% of the time. In that offense, if Carson Palmer can eliminate half of his bad decisions, this team will win more than 8 games and Carsons numbers will excel far beyond what Campbell may have been able to do.

This debate isnt about who, its about how!

We already had this debate. When the rushing game was under 150 YPG Camp's rating was 64.3.

Just stop it already.

[SLVR&BLK]

Interesting, but did you know that in 2010, at about the same time Pittsburgh did the same thing to the Bengals and Palmer looked just as bad as Campbell did (rating below 50), alot of good quarterbacks folded up like a cheap newspaper against those defenses. Beyond that, you bring two games to the table out of 13, do you not find that ironic? We had zero running game in the Colts game and yet Campbell played decently, in several other games we leaned on the pass instead of the run and he put up decent production. In 2010 i think we averaged 156 yards per game rushing, the league average was under 115. How did Campbell fair in those games where our running game was just average or below average. Campbell played in 6 of those games and finished 3-3 in them, ironically, Carson was 2-4 in those types of games. It is unfair to use last year against Palmer at all but if you look at Palmers entire career, without that running game he too is well below .500 as a quarterback and his numbers dramatically drop. As a team, over the last 5 years, the Raiders are 7-32 with less than 115 yards rushing, thats with 5 different Quarterbacks.

The reason Campbell didnt get 7-8 million and somebodies starting quarterback is two fold. One, Jason didnt wait the game out for whatever reason and two (which is influenced #1) is that the guy isnt known as a great passer already. He suffered a broken collar bone so nobody has any idea how he recovers from that. Once again my friend, dont turn this into something it isnt. We arent saying Campbell is better than Palmer, Im not even stating he will be a great starter for any or every team. What i am saying is that with a weak defense, inconsistent wide receivers and a good running game, his style of play was better for this team than the alternative. The wins and losses with 3 different QBs, 2 styles of play show time and time again that this is a fact.

Jason Campbells style of play (with this team) won more football games than it lost. Carson Palmer (or Gradkowskis same style) showed time and time again that with this football team, it lost more games than it won. We have not dramatically upgraded our defense, we have not been shown that we can get consistent WR play from our group. With those things known and proven, it is without a doubt more beneficial for this team to play the Campbell way than it is to stray from that. Thats not an opinion, thats proven on paper over two years. You can then take Palmers career, look at the numbers and once again its not an opinion, its proven on paper that when his offense leans on a running game, he has success, stray from that and he has more failures.

Once again, based on that history of this team and Carson Palmer, i dont want Jason Campbell. I want our offense to lean on the running game and throw the ball less than 55% of the time. In that offense, if Carson Palmer can eliminate half of his bad decisions, this team will win more than 8 games and Carsons numbers will excel far beyond what Campbell may have been able to do.

This debate isnt about who, its about how!

At the end of the day Campbell's style of play impressed you more than NFL GMs and coaches, your certainly entitled to your opinion though.

[Okie]

At the end of the day Campbell's style of play impressed you more than NFL GMs and coaches, your certainly entitled to your opinion though.

His style of play WON us football games and thats what impresses me. Unfortunately, most of you would rather see 300 yards on a passing sheet rather than a W in the win column!

[Okie]

We already had this debate. When the rushing game was under 150 YPG Camp's rating was 64.3.

Just stop it already.

I almost forgot about that! That 2-4 stretch through there hurt us pretty good. Too bad that your boy isnt our Quarterback huh? Oh, in case you forgot,

When the rushing game was under 150 YPG Godkowskis rating was 63.5. That 0-3 stretch hurt us even worse!

LoL

Fail