The Raider Dark Age of 2003-2009...What Went Wrong?? Simple Version.

[SLVR and Black]

He was there, where as Matt Millen the guy YOU compared him to was a charismatic football guy(baby madden) was a play by play guy whos charisma got him the job.

So Reggie another Matt Millen....I think not

I actually more closely compared him to San Diego's AJ Smith, Millen was little but a quick tag line. AJ and Reggie have both been highly regarded as fantastic evaluators of talent, have both been in the front office of SB teams, have both come up through the ranks, starting as scouts, and both finished their stints with previous teams as Director of Pro Player Personnel. They differ greatly in their managerial approaches but that on it's own doesn't make one better than the other.

Personally, I think that Reggie will do a great job and I like what he's done so far. Until I see it translate to on-field success though, I'll remain a tad nervous.

[truepirate1966]

The great run of the Raiders ended in the 80s.....We made the playoffs a couple times in the 90s..........but half of the nineties was a real dismal time for the Raiders....and Al made monumental personel mistakes in the 90s too....Prior to that--In the 70s and 80s better personel moves were made for the most part.......

The Nineties was a better than 2003-12 but it was well below the Raider standard......

The 90s was our decade of mediocraty, and after about 3 to 4 years of the last hoorah, we had our almost decade of losing and desaster,( now we will rise from our ashes of destruction like a Phoenix and reclaim our rightfull place in the universe and all will be right again) Just kidding, but one can only hope.

[Okie]

What were the specific detailed reasons behind the Al Davis-Marcus Allen feud in the first place? because that also was a turning point in Raiders history

From my recollection that was all due to a stubborn owner versus a whining player. Still to this day i agree with most of Marcus points he had, but still to this day i dont blame Al any more than Marcus. Both had points, both were wrong, both were right but in the end, both are too blame!

That doesnt matter anyway. There isnt an owner (GM) who hasnt gotten cross with players at some point. Granted most people would have simply traded Allen away and Al didnt handle it well but neither did Marcus.

[paul0660]

Oh because Warren Sapp, who is extremely vocal about his disdain for the Raiders Org, said it, it is true? Lol. You can dislike Al Davis all you want, but you have no idea about his work ethic. Even if Al showed up sometimes later than others in org, even Sapp said 2pm btw, not 4pm, there is this new invention called the internet that allows people to work from home. Also telephone works too. Not to mention Sapp hasn't been in Alameda for YEARS.

As time goes on, Sapp is shown to be correct more and more often. This thread is literally just about that. It was, however, Kiffen who said 2 pm. Sapp said 4 pm.

Regardless of that, what Al did not do made a difference. Underfunding coaching and scouting has predicable results.

[raiderArt]

Main thing that went wrong is the draft. go to the site drafthistory.com and start with 2001. all you need to know.

[Da Swami]

From my recollection that was all due to a stubborn owner versus a whining player. Still to this day i agree with most of Marcus points he had, but still to this day i dont blame Al any more than Marcus. Both had points, both were wrong, both were right but in the end, both are too blame!

That doesnt matter anyway. There isnt an owner (GM) who hasnt gotten cross with players at some point. Granted most people would have simply traded Allen away and Al didnt handle it well but neither did Marcus.

What were Marcus' points that made sense?

Al tore up his contract twice in his first four seasons. The whole thing started when Dickerson was traded to Indy. Marcus felt he was under paid after ED became the highest paid back in the NFL. Marcus had a sub par year in 86 and had just gotten a raise after the 85 season when Al very generously tore up his contract.

For the second time in 2 years.

Then, in 1987, when the players went on strike, Marcus, in addition to striking, joined the OPTIONAL NFLPA lawsuit against the owners. Then, as if that wasn't enough, Marcus went on KTLA in Los Angeles slandering and blasting his boss who had been very good to him. He childishly did the media tour around L.A. bad mouthing Al. Then, claiming he was underpaid, he held out after the players returned from the strike which was a stupid move when your back up is Bo Jackson. I lost all respect for Marcus that year and don't see what possible points you could see that justify his conduct.

He got what he deserved.

Marcus wanted another pay raise when Dickerson became the highest paid back in the NFL. He didn't deserve it after his sub par 86 year and had already been given two raises in his first four seasons. I would love to hear what you think he was right on.His O.J. like charm had the media on his side when in reality, he personified the greedy egotistical athlete who was never happy.

He didn't deserve a 3rd raise after 86 and Al stood firm on a spoiled brat who badly needed to be told no.

That's what the conflict was over.

In order to say he had a valid point, you would have to argue he deserved a 3rd raise in 5 years and he did not.

I am just saying what the media never did in their zeal to smear Al.

I lived in Los Angeles when that happened and remember it very well.

[raidernationbmw]

What went wrong you ask? the 2001 playoff game in Gillette Stadium at Foxborough where we got robbed if we would have won that game Gruden would have still been the coach til this day i tell you!!!!

[Da Swami]

What went wrong you ask? the 2001 playoff game in Gillette Stadium at Foxborough where we got robbed if we would have won that game Gruden would have still been the coach til this day i tell you!!!!

Would the last decade hurt so much had we beaten TB in the SB 2002?

I always like to ask Raider fans that.

[raidernationbmw]

Would the last decade hurt so much had we beaten TB in the SB 2002?

I always like to ask Raider fans that.

Hell no as long as we would have won another Lombardi trophy the slump after that would have been fine with me and every other Raider in the world, Then i can brag about how we own 4 super bowl rings instead of 3 but yeah it would of definitely have taken the pain away and made it easier to watch us loose all the games we did following 2003.

[paul0660]

That's what the conflict was over.

I agree, like I said before. However, Al held on to Allen for another 6 years, out of spite. Great management.

[ballin12]

The gannon era ending in failure combined with terrible drafting is what happened.

[ballin12]

Hell no as long as we would have won another Lombardi trophy the slump after that would have been fine with me and every other Raider in the world, Then i can brag about how we own 4 super bowl rings instead of 3 but yeah it would of definitely have taken the pain away and made it easier to watch us loose all the games we did following 2003.

tbh with gannon i felt like he shoulda won 2 rings. Even 1 ring woulda been nice....but zero. DAMN that hurts.

Ive also felt like had gannon won a ring or two al davis's legacy would have been different. He would rank with the rooneys and jerry jones versus a flameout GM/owner.

That whole ravens/patriots/gruden saga really put a dent in the raiders image to this day. Terrible drafting doesn't help but I think davis was drafting for the biggest hype/franchise player even when they had signs of a bust so he could win now before his time was up. (jamarcus, gallery, getting sapp ect).

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

It was the fact that when Gannon and other good players went by the wayside, there was no one of equal or greater value to take their places. Drafting JaWalrus Coughsyrup didn't help, either. Should have made getting a LEGIT starting QB a priority.

[paul0660]

It was the fact that when Gannon and other good players went by the wayside, there was no one of equal or greater value to take their places. Drafting JaWalrus Coughsyrup didn't help, either. Should have made getting a LEGIT starting QB a priority.

I think Al expected Mirer to be a capable backup, or even a Plunkett. As much as I appreciate Seabass, I wish they had taken Pennington in 2000, even if he could not throw it 70 yards.

Of course with the revolving door of coaches here, he wouldn't have done as well here as in NY or Miami.

[Naphtali]

When you look at some of those players we could of drafted, then again we didn't have the the coaching staff stability to be confident we could develop any of those players anyhow. Look what we did to Gallery, Gallery should be right now what Joe Thomas / Jake Long is

STill I thought Norv's Raiders had some promise even if he wasn't the right coach


I was actually thinking about the Golden state warriors and how awful they are and it was like they transferred their franchise energy to us in the last decade