[riley_nadz]

42 - Drew Henson
40 - Alex Smith
39 - Aaron Rogers
39 - Eli Manning
39 - Brian Griese
38 - Charlie Frye
37 - Tony Romo
36 - Drew Bledsoe
35 - Matt Leinart
35 - Kellen Clemens
33 - Tom Brady
33 - Steve Young
32 - Joey Harrington
32 - Patrick Ramsey
32 - Sage Rosenfels
31 - J.P. Losman
31 - Matt Schaub
30 - Phillip Rivers
29 - Brady Quinn
29 - Rex Grossman
29 - Marc Bulger
29 - Matt Hasselbeck
29 - Troy Aikman
29 - John Elway
28 - Drew Brees
28 - Peyton Manning
27 - Kyle Boller
27 - Ryan Leaf
26 - Jay Cutler
26 - Kyle Orton
26 - Carson Palmer
26 - Akili Smith
25 - Ben Roethlisberger
25 - Byron Leftwich
25 - Chad Pennington
24 - JaMarcus Russell
24 - David Carr
23 - Jason Campbell
22 - Tim Couch
22 - Trent Dilfer
22 - Brett Favre
20 - Michael Vick
19 - Tarvaris Jackson
19 - Bruce Gradkowski
19 - Derek Anderson
19 - A.J. Feeley
18 - Daunte Culpepper
17 - Aaron Brooks
17 - Vinny Testeverde
16 - Vince Young
15 - Steve McNair
15 - Randall Cunningham
15 - Dan Marino
15 - Terry Bradshaw
14 - David Garrard
14 - Donovan McNabb
11 - Marcus Vick
10 - Jeff George
8 - Chris Leak

never would have thought gradkowski would have scored lower than JR

[signal]

When I look at that list, I must say I have to question its ability to measure any form of intelligence. The fact that Dan Marino and McNair are near the bottom of that list really seems to offer up evidence that the test may be an inaccurate and useless tool when it comes to stating anything meaningful in regards to intelligence.

[HBD]

Originally Posted by signal

When I look at that list, I must say I have to question its ability to measure any form of intelligence. The fact that Dan Marino and McNair are near the bottom of that list really seems to offer up evidence that the test may be an inaccurate and useless tool when it comes to stating anything meaningful in regards to intelligence.

Or the amount of effort actually put in by someone who thought the same way.

[riley_nadz]

Originally Posted by signal

When I look at that list, I must say I have to question its ability to measure any form of intelligence. The fact that Dan Marino and McNair are near the bottom of that list really seems to offer up evidence that the test may be an inaccurate and useless tool when it comes to stating anything meaningful in regards to intelligence.

hard to argue.

[vtraider]

Originally Posted by riley_nadz

42 - Drew Henson
40 - Alex Smith
39 - Aaron Rogers
39 - Eli Manning
39 - Brian Griese
38 - Charlie Frye
37 - Tony Romo
36 - Drew Bledsoe
35 - Matt Leinart
35 - Kellen Clemens
33 - Tom Brady
33 - Steve Young
32 - Joey Harrington
32 - Patrick Ramsey
32 - Sage Rosenfels
31 - J.P. Losman
31 - Matt Schaub
30 - Phillip Rivers
29 - Brady Quinn
29 - Rex Grossman
29 - Marc Bulger
29 - Matt Hasselbeck
29 - Troy Aikman
29 - John Elway
28 - Drew Brees
28 - Peyton Manning
27 - Kyle Boller
27 - Ryan Leaf
26 - Jay Cutler
26 - Kyle Orton
26 - Carson Palmer
26 - Akili Smith
25 - Ben Roethlisberger
25 - Byron Leftwich
25 - Chad Pennington
24 - JaMarcus Russell
24 - David Carr
23 - Jason Campbell
22 - Tim Couch
22 - Trent Dilfer
22 - Brett Favre
20 - Michael Vick
19 - Tarvaris Jackson
19 - Bruce Gradkowski
19 - Derek Anderson
19 - A.J. Feeley
18 - Daunte Culpepper
17 - Aaron Brooks
17 - Vinny Testeverde
16 - Vince Young
15 - Steve McNair
15 - Randall Cunningham
15 - Dan Marino
15 - Terry Bradshaw
14 - David Garrard
14 - Donovan McNabb
11 - Marcus Vick
10 - Jeff George
8 - Chris Leak

never would have thought gradkowski would have scored lower than JR

The ones that stand out to me are these
14 - Donovan McNabb
15 - - Dan Marino
15 - Terry Bradshaw
15 - Steve McNair
23 - Jason Campbell

[WNYRAIDER]

Originally Posted by riley_nadz

42 - Drew Henson
40 - Alex Smith
39 - Aaron Rogers
39 - Eli Manning
39 - Brian Griese
38 - Charlie Frye
37 - Tony Romo
36 - Drew Bledsoe
35 - Matt Leinart
35 - Kellen Clemens
33 - Tom Brady
33 - Steve Young
32 - Joey Harrington
32 - Patrick Ramsey
32 - Sage Rosenfels
31 - J.P. Losman
31 - Matt Schaub
30 - Phillip Rivers
29 - Brady Quinn
29 - Rex Grossman
29 - Marc Bulger
29 - Matt Hasselbeck
29 - Troy Aikman
29 - John Elway
28 - Drew Brees
28 - Peyton Manning
27 - Kyle Boller
27 - Ryan Leaf
26 - Jay Cutler
26 - Kyle Orton
26 - Carson Palmer
26 - Akili Smith
25 - Ben Roethlisberger
25 - Byron Leftwich
25 - Chad Pennington
24 - JaMarcus Russell
24 - David Carr
23 - Jason Campbell
22 - Tim Couch
22 - Trent Dilfer
22 - Brett Favre
20 - Michael Vick
19 - Tarvaris Jackson
19 - Bruce Gradkowski
19 - Derek Anderson
19 - A.J. Feeley
18 - Daunte Culpepper
17 - Aaron Brooks
17 - Vinny Testeverde
16 - Vince Young
15 - Steve McNair
15 - Randall Cunningham
15 - Dan Marino
15 - Terry Bradshaw
14 - David Garrard
14 - Donovan McNabb
11 - Marcus Vick
10 - Jeff George
8 - Chris Leak

never would have thought gradkowski would have scored lower than JR

Lethargy is a huge issue with Russell. He always seems like he just burned one and is slow to process and react. Not what you should look for or want in a 'leader'.

The red flags were all there before the draft, including the weight concerns, and were a big reason why i didn't want the guy. This is a guy who could not control his weight during one of the most important times in his life and when all eyes on him. That said plenty. If you have weight issues as an active kid, that doesn't bode well for later.

Off the top of my head, other than Bruce Smith, i can't think of too many guys who transformed themselves physically by losing and keeping the weight off after the fact. A guy like Smith had that intensity and could will himself to do what he needed to do.

Intensity is hardly a trait i would associate with the porty JR, a guy more closely resembling Forrest Gumps little Gilligan buddy in the shrimp business.

[fad]

Bruce did beat Dan Marino though. Im happy you put up this list because draft time is just around the corner.

Its pretty obvious to me there is no correlation what so ever between the results of this test and QB success in the NFL. You have great ones, mediocre ones and failures all over the sample.
The NFL game and its playbooks arent too complex for anybody who has a normaly functionning brain. Its much more about putting in the time and work thats required.

[WNYRAIDER]

Originally Posted by fad

Bruce did beat Dan Marino though. Im happy you put up this list because draft time is just around the corner.

Its pretty obvious to me there is no correlation what so ever between the results of this test and QB success in the NFL. You have great ones, mediocre ones and failures all over the sample.
The NFL game and its playbooks arent too complex for anybody who has a normaly functionning brain. Its much more about putting in the time and work thats required.

Not familiar with how this test is administered, and what they test specifically, but i would think the time it takes for those taking the test to answer correctly would be more telling than just how many questions are answered correctly.

[guydon]

Now they need a test for work ethic I bet it would go something like...

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Donovan Mcnabb
Philip Rivers
and so on...

[cheapshotartist]

Originally Posted by signal

When I look at that list, I must say I have to question its ability to measure any form of intelligence. The fact that Dan Marino and McNair are near the bottom of that list really seems to offer up evidence that the test may be an inaccurate and useless tool when it comes to stating anything meaningful in regards to intelligence.

Agreed. While common sense tells you a player needs some intelligence to play football said player must be able to play football first and foremost. If you can't play football intelligence does not mean sh!t.

[fad]

Bottom line if you love football intelligence wont be an issue.

The time you take for the test doesnt mean anything either. Ive studied long enough to know that. It has much more to do with the habits of people and their confidence. Some will take every minute of the test and second guess themselves when they are really good. Some wont bother going over their answers and they should.

[JUSTautumnWINd]

I'm no expert on the subject, but here's a post I made based on some of what I think I understand about the wondelic.

Anyway, my understanding is that the Wonderlic is only meant to offer some insight. (It's only a 12 minute test after all) If a player scores 24, like Russell, we can at least infer that he's not retarded. It doesn't necessarily mean he's smarter than the guy with a 19 score, because it is a very short test and it's impossible to know how hard either person tried. (I wonder who had the better SAT -- a more indicative test)

(For example: Vince Young scored a six. There's NO WAY that's the best he could. Although, to be honest, a score of 19 indicates some effort, so that's more damning IMHO than a a score of 6, which is obviously inaccurate.)

What we do know is that Russell scored 24, and that is the average for NFL QBs. However, his score probably says more about him being intelligent than it does about Gradkowski not being intelligent.

Basically, the idea is that a score around 20 is meant to indicate average intelligence. That's not say the difference between a score of 19 and a score of 24 is negligible, but they're fairly close for a test that's only a short approximation of longer, more reliable tests.

BTW, it's suggested that a wonderlic score roughly correlates to a an IQ score according to the formula: IQ = (2WPT + 60). That would give Russell an IQ of about 108, which is nothing to brag about. Whereas, Gradkowski's score could indicate a score below 100, which is below the national average. I highly doubt Bruce Gradkowski's IQ is that low. (FWW, The average IQ of a college student is between 115 and 120)

Personally, I suspect their IQs are probably pretty close, and at least a little higher than the national average.

You can believe what you want, but the whole basis of these tests is to predict future performance. I think Gradkowski has demonstrated at least as much aptitude as Russell as QB, and I think a lot of reasonable people would argue he's actually displayed more competence in general.

[S&B_BO34]

My understanding of the wonderlic...

50 question multiple choice (4 choices) timed exam. I believe you have 12 minutes to complete the exam. The questions are not overly complex - much easier than a standard SAT and uses similar categories (Math and English skills).

I have to agree with other posters though - this test does not have a strong correlation to NFL success.

Skill/athletic ability is always important, but more than brains, and more than physical ability is desire!

JR does not seem to show any desire to want to be great - or even a starter!

Others that put in the time, dedicate themselves, and push themselves to be great, seem to be the ones that have great success. Work ethic and desire are very important. Those types of traits are what the scouts/talking heads refer to as the intangibles.

The problem I see with Al's drafting strategy is that he only looks at the tangible skill set - the 40 time, bench reps, size, speed, height, etc. Drafting physical specimens without the desire or without some semblance of intelligence is asking for trouble.

It has been said many times before and will be repeated many times again - we need to draft football players (guys who love the game, guys who understand the game) not track stars (the guys with the fastest 40).

[HITMAN]

The wunderlick doesn't measure football skills so it's really a useless test IMO.

[RaiderOfTheSith]

Originally Posted by signal

When I look at that list, I must say I have to question its ability to measure any form of intelligence. The fact that Dan Marino and McNair are near the bottom of that list really seems to offer up evidence that the test may be an inaccurate and useless tool when it comes to stating anything meaningful in regards to intelligence.

You're mixing up several things ... the wonderlic tests the ability to learn and regurgitate information and abstract thought ... in essense they try to use it as a guage as to someones ability to quickly absorb a playbook and information ...

it does not test football skill, it does not test work ethic or desire, it does not test football instinct, ergo it does not test football knowledge