[Bram Raider]

When draft-day rolls around, if Gerard Warren and Cornell Green aren't replaced in the 1st and 2nd round I think I might start to kick the keyboard, go off on one and maybe get banned from this site. If Al drafts Taylor Mays or Eric Berry I might just jump on a plane to Oakland in order to personally kick his walker from under him.


Warren is officially one of the worst DTs in football.
I've long acknowledged he was inconsistent, but his play this year has been pitiful.

Ranked 72nd out of 74 players in the NFL - and we can argue about stats all we want, but we're seeing that on the field.

ProFootballFocus.com - By Position

Green and his replacement Pears/Barnes aren't a whole lot better.
He makes dumb play after dumb play (when he's on the field).
We've all wanted him to be replaced and now is the time to do it.

[RaiderInNY]

Originally Posted by Bram Raider

When draft-day rolls around, if Gerard Warren and Cornell Green aren't replaced in the 1st and 2nd round I think I might start to kick the keyboard, go off on one and maybe get banned from this site. If Al drafts Taylor Mays or Eric Berry I might just jump on a plane to Oakland in order to personally kick his walker from under him.


Warren is officially one of the worst DTs in football.
I've long acknowledged he was inconsistent, but his play this year has been pitiful.

Ranked 72nd out of 74 players in the NFL - and we can argue about stats all we want, but we're seeing that on the field.

ProFootballFocus.com - By Position

Green and his replacement Pears/Barnes aren't a whole lot better.
He makes dumb play after dumb play (when he's on the field).
We've all wanted him to be replaced and now is the time to do it.

I know its slow around here; but this is something that has been beaten to death for years now.

Cornell Green is not a NFL starter, and at best he is a back-up on a good day. The guy meets his quota for flags every game and is a mess...

As for Warren, and I know you like to start threads to facilitate conversation and all, but the last thing you should do is look at rankings, stats etc., when looking at DTs.

And BTW, Warren is one of the few guys on the defense that is looked at as a vet, with respect by other players etc. and a guy who is very vocal within the team, trying to pump up guys like Russell when they have a bad outing etc.

Something that from the outside, you wouldnt know. Now, the guy is hard to deal with in the locker room and can be moody, but he is a pro.

Physically, he is not the DT everyone thought he would be out of college. That's why he has bounced around. And he'll never be a run stuffer nor a premier pass rusher at that spot. But he is a good rotation guy.

And at this point, why not just bash and start a thread with this same topic about the guy is making a dump load of money on that same unit? Why not a, "we need to replace T.Kelly...," or a "Purge this roster of his deal...," type thread?

He is more problematic with his contract, his style of play, inconsistent play/hustle and just ineptitude that is maddening.

It's funny how you say, "Now is the time to do it..."

It should have been done last season! Green should have never come back and should have never been in a spot to land that starting spot. I know, Barnes was hurst etc., but he was brought back by Cable, and for some reason, he has an infatuation for the guy....

As for Warren, at this point, it's reaching. Heck, why not a 'we must part with Sam Williams...," "We must part with Jon Alston...," or, "We must part with Jay Richardson..." thread too...

You can make a case for many on this roster...

[Bram Raider]

Originally Posted by RaiderInNY

I know its slow around here; but this is something that has been beaten to death for years now.

Cornell Green is not a NFL starter, and at best he is a back-up on a good day. The guy meets his quota for flags every game and is a mess...

As for Warren, and I know you like to start threads to facilitate conversation and all, but the last thing you should do is look at rankings, stats etc., when looking at DTs.

And BTW, Warren is one of the few guys on the defense that is looked at as a vet, with respect by other players etc. and a guy who is very vocal within the team, trying to pump up guys like Russell when they have a bad outing etc.

Something that from the outside, you wouldnt know. Now, the guy is hard to deal with in the locker room and can be moody, but he is a pro.

Physically, he is not the DT everyone thought he would be out of college. That's why he has bounced around. And he'll never be a run stuffer nor a premier pass rusher at that spot. But he is a good rotation guy.

And at this point, why not just bash and start a thread with this same topic about the guy is making a dump load of money on that same unit? Why not a, "we need to replace T.Kelly...," or a "Purge this roster of his deal...," type thread?

He is more problematic with his contract, his style of play, inconsistent play/hustle and just ineptitude that is maddening.

It's funny how you say, "Now is the time to do it..."

It should have been done last season! Green should have never come back and should have never been in a spot to land that starting spot. I know, Barnes was hurst etc., but he was brought back by Cable, and for some reason, he has an infatuation for the guy....

As for Warren, at this point, it's reaching. Heck, why not a 'we must part with Sam Williams...," "We must part with Jon Alston...," or, "We must part with Jay Richardson..." thread too...

You can make a case for many on this roster...

Funnily enough, for much of last season Warren was also the talk of this forum.
I know he's a team-guy.
I saw him trying to get Russell pumped up the other week.

Thing is though, we can't win with players like Warren starting.
Lining up Warren and Ellis outside of him is like playing nothing football.
Kelly has been better with Seymour beside him this year. We've heard his name called more often than the last couple of years.

What we need is a more stout run-stuffer at Warren's position.
Personally, I'm still touting Jared Odrick or Penn.St. who seems to have a load of fire and plays well in a scheme that frees up the guys behind him.

[Ih8bandwgnbchis]

Funny that Kirk Morrison is the highest rated ILB against the run. Either this sites stats are bull $hit or people who say Morrison is the worst MLB in the league are full of $hit......hmmm. I wish was able to watch more of the games on TV this year.

[bigjayboogie]

Our d-line has not played this well in 20 years...it's not even close...

could we improve? yes...but it's not nearly a concern as LB and o-line...

[3 Lombardis]

I like Gerald Warren. I probably do not focus on him when he takes a play off because he looks to be working hard. I did not look at the stats (not real sure what stats would ne relevant for a DT).

I dont see the problem with hims ... if not for his penetration, we'd have real long spurts completely without any defensive penetration at all over the past two years.

[or24]

How is ellis playing bad? I wanna hear this one. Green has played better this year and hasn't been horrible. He gets a bad rep for horrible play the past couple years. Barnes is 10X worse. Green has played good at times.

[Whitestangboy]

Originally Posted by Ih8bandwgnbchis

Funny that Kirk Morrison is the highest rated ILB against the run. Either this sites stats are bull or people who say Morrison is the worst MLB in the league are full of ......hmmm. I wish was able to watch more of the games on TV this year.

I agree, a total crap site/stats. 48 Derrick Burgess NE 49 Jamaal Anderson 50 Julius Peppers CAR 51 Vernon Gholston. That says it all!!

[Trackstar]

The thing with Warren is that he gets paid way too much. I'd like to have him as a rotation guy, but he should not have the contract he does.

[RaiderInNY]

Originally Posted by bigjayboogie

Our d-line has not played this well in 20 years...it's not even close...

could we improve? yes...but it's not nearly a concern as LB and o-line...

I wouldnt say that long ago; the line of Bryant/Upshaw Parella, Adams, Coleman & Armstrong rotation was solid against the run (3rd in run D), the D was tied for sixth for sacks among other solid attributes for a season.

[RaiderInNY]

Originally Posted by Trackstar

The thing with Warren is that he gets paid way too much. I'd like to have him as a rotation guy, but he should not have the contract he does.

And that's the problem among manny others with a lot of players; Kelly being another, Chris Johnson being another, Huff making coin (even though is a rookie deal), among others.

Plus, here's another thing with this roster I HATE;

N.Miller, Ike Ekejiuba, Condo, S.Williams, Alston, Holland, JLH, R.Brown among others, just special teamers that can't contribute or function within a part of an offense or defense...

One trick ponies. Which is fine, you need special teamers, you need role players, not eveyrone is a starter or a star on your roster, but year in and year out, we caryr too many players like this as well.

[raiderroo]

Both Warren and Kelly or more of rotational guys on the line or 3rd DT. Guys you could move around on the line and use to spell others and they could be effective that way.

I think we could live with one of them starting if there was actually a good DT next to them in the middle but to have both of them starting just isnt a very good combonation.

People have been saying things like this for a long time on here but it seems its more of an obvious problem to us fans than to the organization.

[bigjayboogie]

Originally Posted by RaiderInNY

I wouldnt say that long ago; the line of Bryant/Upshaw Parella, Adams, Coleman & Armstrong rotation was solid against the run (3rd in run D), the D was tied for sixth for sacks among other solid attributes for a season.

yes..they were very good..but do you remember them coming as hard as this line has been coming? This is reminiscent of what we put up in the early 90s where we constantly were collapsing the pocket....it didn't always result in sacks but the QB never felt safe....but you're right...we were quite good when trace was here..but didn't he only play for us for a year or so?

[RaiderInNY]

Originally Posted by bigjayboogie

yes..they were very good..but do you remember them coming as hard as this line has been coming? This is reminiscent of what we put up in the early 90s where we constantly were collapsing the pocket....it didn't always result in sacks but the QB never felt safe....but you're right...we were quite good when trace was here..but didn't he only play for us for a year or so?

2-years I believe; hurt for most of it though. LOL

And you are right, in terms of pressure, that group did not bring the heat as this one.

[Raidermofojeff]

The whole offensive line other than Henderson and Gallery needs upgraded.........and then we can upgrade on Gallery and Henderson.........
When it comes to O-line if your not making upgrades your downgrading........
Slight upgrades= downgrading as well.....................When it comes to O-line, if there are better guys out there than what you have, you should be looking to get them until what you have is the best............O-line-no compromise.......I could see wasting a third rd pick on a project player like Bey..........but the first rd should nearly always be spent on O-line or D line...........

This rant will be heard regularly until we have an O-line that can be called great.........