Al Davis... Credit or no credit, (media says no)

[fckallr8drhtrz]

loui dont you just love it when your threads go upsidedown i agree with you why i dont know just feel like it lmfao but seriously could you just imagine if we picked him and he held out on us i could see it now."first russell now crabtree man al davis is an idiot" as quoted by bspn and all them other fu ckin haters



good thread loui

[OWShaddock]

Remember yesterday when you explained why there was more attention being paid to DHBs drops than the other receivers.
Why can’t you apply that same logic to Crabtree here.
The media and a lot of this board assumed (and we know happens when you do that) Crabs would be our pick. It was, and still is, a big controversy that we didn’t.
That explains why there is more attention being paid Crabtree than Curry or Smith.

That may be part of it, but it goes well beyond that and I think everyone knows it. One would have to be willfully blind to believe there isn't a strong anti-Crabtree bias around here, and that bias is largely a result of hoping he fails to justify the Raiders' decision to pass on him.
Read some of the posts. They aren't simply discussions about him and his holdout. They're filled with vitriol and a "ha ha, told you so" attitude that shows their motivation.
Look, it's not my plce to tell anyone whether they should like or dislike Michael Crabtree. But let's at least be honest about why he's getting so much attention here. It's not simply because he is a guy the Raiders passed on. It's because there's a hope that he fails, and that hope exists because people are looking to justify the Raiders' decision.

[MoKnows2724]

Al Davis wouldn't pick ANYONE without a 40 Yard Dash, and Crabtree was rumored to only have 4.5 speed.The only reason DHB was picked was because of his measureables and speed.

[OWShaddock]

If people want to make special mention of DHBs drops then they will also concentrate on Crabs being a diva who talks male fashion and cries when being yelled at....

So wait ... you're suggesting that the fashion stylings of a San Francisco 49er should be as much a topic of discussion on an Oakland Raiders Football forum as the receiving skills of an Oakland Raiders wide receiver?
Really?
Ummm, yeah .... I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.

[OWShaddock]

I think the moment we decided that Crabtree was not the pick...DHB was the pick irreguardless of where we picked was going to be DHB...I believe Cable...it was never an option..

Agreed.
Al Davis - who's never traded down in the first round - decided DHB was his pick and he was going to take at #7. end of story.

[NWTF]

That may be part of it, but it goes well beyond that and I think everyone knows it. One would have to be willfully blind to believe there isn't a strong anti-Crabtree bias around here, and that bias is largely a result of hoping he fails to justify the Raiders' decision to pass on him.
Read some of the posts. They aren't simply discussions about him and his holdout. They're filled with vitriol and a "ha ha, told you so" attitude that shows their motivation.
Look, it's not my plce to tell anyone whether they should like or dislike Michael Crabtree.

But let's at least be honest about why he's getting so much attention here. It's not simply because he is a guy the Raiders passed on. It's because there's a hope that he fails, and that hope exists because people are looking to justify the Raiders' decision.

Bingo

[RAIDER_Dave]

But we do know that in his post-draft press conference Tom Cable said the team never explored the possibility of trading down.
I guess then it comes down to whether you believe Cable was telling the truth or telling a fib.

I was not aware that was stated... and I have no reason not to believe it.
I still doubt we could have traded down... I admit we should have at least tried.

[OWShaddock]

I was not aware that was stated... and I have no reason not to believe it.
I still doubt we could have traded down... I admit we should have at least tried.

From his post-first round press conference:

Q: Thought of trading down and still getting him?

Cable: No, that was never the plan. We knew what we wanted to do the whole time. This was the choice that we thought we had to have to move this team to the next step.

Q: Offers to trade out of the pick?

Cable: We never ever really talked about wanting to move. We were pretty strong about what we needed to do. Like I said, we targeted this one about a month ago and getting this team where it needs to be, and obviously that’s the ability to score more points. This was the no-question pick.


Cable on Heyward-Bey - Inside the Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of ANG Newspapers

[RAIDER_Dave]

That may be part of it, but it goes well beyond that and I think everyone knows it. One would have to be willfully blind to believe there isn't a strong anti-Crabtree bias around here, and that bias is largely a result of hoping he fails to justify the Raiders' decision to pass on him.
Read some of the posts. They aren't simply discussions about him and his holdout. They're filled with vitriol and a "ha ha, told you so" attitude that shows their motivation.
Look, it's not my plce to tell anyone whether they should like or dislike Michael Crabtree. But let's at least be honest about why he's getting so much attention here. It's not simply because he is a guy the Raiders passed on. It's because there's a hope that he fails, and that hope exists because people are looking to justify the Raiders' decision.

No argument from me there…
Heck… I admit… I’m one of those guys. It’s human nature.
I wasn’t huge on Crabtree before the draft, but I figured we’d probably draft him.
Then the diva reports came out of Cleveland… kinda worried me.
When we picked DHB, was a little shocked, but not much… this is AL.
But you have to admit… Crabtree has made it easy to root against him. With his look of relief and laugh after the Raiders didn’t pick him. Now this demand of top 5 money or re-entering the draft. Their mention of DHB and the money he got.

[PatchEye]

now this "Diva" attitude has reared its ugly head and no one in the media wants to give Mr. Davis and the Raiders credit for doing their homework. Instead they are trying to twist this entire issue by defending Crabtree's stance. Not once have I heard a reporter say, "Wow, Al was right", or "Give the Raiders credit for doing their homework on this kid".

Well, Mr Davis I for one commend you for a job well done. You deserve the credit on this one. If you are going to take the heat you desrve the credit!

Man .. thanks! I thought of it myself, but you put into words so well ..
rep comin to you bro!

I'm beside myself about what Mike Lombardi said on NFLN, by blaming Mr Davis
for Crytree's Holdout ..

It couldn't have been "twisted" any worse way .. sad, very sad!
And the thing about it is, it's their "job" to report, not spew sh!t like Carter did on Draft Day,
or what good ole Mike Lombardi himself did by tring to .. spin, spin, spin!

The amazing thing is, (I wonder) do they honestly think that we're gonna buy that?

Really?
PatchEye

[signal]

Haven't really followed the Crabtree thing closely at all other than I do find him and his agents stance regarding their asking price: we should get top 5 money because that is where he should have gone, ridiculous. But that aside, the Raiders were not the only team to pass on him. 8 other teams passed on him, plus no one moved up to get him. So, as someone posted, and I am assuming they are correct, if some in the media are blaming the Raiders for Crabtree's holdout, I think that is convoluted thinking. Plus, I believe he is asking for top 5 money, hell, the Raiders picked 7th, so how is it the Raiders fault if they did not even pick in the top five?

Crabtree right now is making a huge mistake in asking more money than his draft position warrants. That said, the suggestion that this means that Crabtree will not be as good as DHB or rather the Raiders made the right pick: well it is far too early to make that assessment. Under any realistic evaluation of a draft, I would think you need a minimum of three years to say anything intelligent regarding the moves made by various teams. Let this thing play itself out before we start patting ourselves or Mr. Davis on the back. That said, Mr. Davis should not be getting blame for this either. It is the Raiders prerogative to choose the player they want on their team. They have no responsibility to adhere to any mock draft, analyst, or any particular player's own evaluation of his talent when making their choice.

[silvernblack10]

I love Al, but IMO he picked DHB, he didn't pass on Crabs. In other words, he didn't say "This guy Crab is going to be a prima donna, let's find another WR" he said "DHB runs a 4.3 and he's 6'2'' 220 lbs! I gotta have him"

COMPLETELY Agree

[raider fan dan]

No argument from me there…
Heck… I admit… I’m one of those guys. It’s human nature.
I wasn’t huge on Crabtree before the draft, but I figured we’d probably draft him.
Then the diva reports came out of Cleveland… kinda worried me.
When we picked DHB, was a little shocked, but not much… this is AL.
But you have to admit… Crabtree has made it easy to root against him. With his look of relief and laugh after the Raiders didn’t pick him. Now this demand of top 5 money or re-entering the draft. Their mention of DHB and the money he got.

You hit the nail on the head there Dave. If Crabtree wouldn't have made the insinuations that he didn't want to be a Raider and made a scene when the Raiders passed on him, 3/4 of the Crabtree threads on this board would be gone. The other 1/4 would be supporting his stance (The "maybe we can draft him next year" guys).

I do find it funny that Crab thinks he should get top 5 money because he feels that he should have been drafted there. He should talk to Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn before making that argument and ask them how it worked out for them.

[ALLRAIDERWORLD]

I'm curious as to how you know all this as "fact"?
The "fact" is that neither you, me or anyone else knows what would have happened had the Raiders drafted Crabtree. It seems to me that Crabtree's holdout largely is about him wanting to be paid as if he were the first receiver taken. That would be the case had the Raiders taken him, so I'd say that a holdout would be far from the sure thing you suggest.

It's funny to me how so many here have become so anti-Crabtree for no apparent reason other than it could make the Raiders look bad if he turns out to be really good.

It can't be his holdout. There are plenty of other rookies holding out and not one of them gets discussed here, much less has multiple threads about him. Where are the Aaron Maybin threads? The Andre Smith threads? The Aaron Curry threads?

It can't be his attitude. The NFL landscape has been filled with receivers with bad attitudes, several of whom have played for the Raiders.

Nope, it's all about wanting Crabtree to be bad because that somehow justifies the Raiders draft-day decisions.

I wanted Crabtree to be our pick and I never said anything about Crabtree being bad on another team. I just don't think he would have fit in on The Raiders. NO, I don't know that for a fact, but after watching Moss come in lay an egg and then go to NE and shine, we don't have time to nurture players with piss-poor "its all about me" attitudes. IF you you want to want wait around another 5 years while we nurture some punk diva wr with an attitude "ala Moss, Porter" then more power to ya! I personally do not!

[ALLRAIDERWORLD]

I'm curious as to how you know all this as "fact"?
The "fact" is that neither you, me or anyone else knows what would have happened had the Raiders drafted Crabtree. It seems to me that Crabtree's holdout largely is about him wanting to be paid as if he were the first receiver taken. That would be the case had the Raiders taken him, so I'd say that a holdout would be far from the sure thing you suggest.

It's funny to me how so many here have become so anti-Crabtree for no apparent reason other than it could make the Raiders look bad if he turns out to be really good.

It can't be his holdout. There are plenty of other rookies holding out and not one of them gets discussed here, much less has multiple threads about him. Where are the Aaron Maybin threads? The Andre Smith threads? The Aaron Curry threads?

It can't be his attitude. The NFL landscape has been filled with receivers with bad attitudes, several of whom have played for the Raiders.

Nope, it's all about wanting Crabtree to be bad because that somehow justifies the Raiders draft-day decisions.

And let me elaborate a little more. There alot more to the Raiders imporving then just brining in a star potential college WR, obviously.

The media continues to rip Al just for tying his shoes. We've had terrible coaching decisions over the last 5 years. We've had horrendous free agent aquisitions that didn't pan out, "Moss, Me Angelo." We suffered through Russel's holdout albeit probably a little more justified more than Craptrees logic of trying get higher than market value for his slot selection, still was a setback, and now you want to us deal with this guy. Dude we don't this distraction. I don't care how good he is and I don't give a rats ass if he fails or not. I'm not trying to justify Al's decision to pick DHB, Im just saying he probably did the right thing by not picking Crabtree considering the state of the Raiders.