[bigjayboogie]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

I know man...because calvin johnson lead the Detroit to a ton of victories in his years in the league and....

[jtagg7754]

Originally Posted by bigjayboogie

I know man...because calvin johnson lead the Detroit to a ton of victories in his years in the league and....

Come on man, you're not gonna play that card are you? Is Calvin playing defense? Is Calvin part of that carousel at QB? Is Calvin coaching?

He was on the WORST team EVER in the history of the NFL, had 3 different QBs throwing to him and only accumulated 78 catches for 1300+ yards and TWELVE TDs in only his SECOND season. You're no fool, you know the traditional window for WRs to perform. This guy could have given up that easily, he could be a prima-donna little bitch like Crabtree but he's not. He's a freak of nature w/ a good head on his shoulders.

Anyone who says they'd take Russell over him is strictly bias. Calvin Johnson is already a top 10 WR in the league and he's proven that it can be extremely mediocre QBs throwing the ball his way but he's still gonna amass crazy numbers. If he got those w/ the crap he had throwing him the ball, wait till he gets someone legit.

[N.O.RaiDaNation]

Josh Freeman is a ****aroach. dumb question

[bigjayboogie]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

Come on man, you're not gonna play that card are you? Is Calvin playing defense? Is Calvin part of that carousel at QB? Is Calvin coaching?

He was on the WORST team EVER in the history of the NFL, had 3 different QBs throwing to him and only accumulated 78 catches for 1300+ yards and TWELVE TDs in only his SECOND season. You're no fool, you know the traditional window for WRs to perform. This guy could have given up that easily, he could be a prima-donna little bitch like Crabtree but he's not. He's a freak of nature w/ a good head on his shoulders.

Anyone who says they'd take Russell over him is strictly bias. Calvin Johnson is already a top 10 WR in the league and he's proven that it can be extremely mediocre QBs throwing the ball his way but he's still gonna amass crazy numbers. If he got those w/ the crap he had throwing him the ball, wait till he gets someone legit.

ok man...I couldn't resist...lol! You know I love Megatron!!!

[DarkLordAlDavis]

Freeman because it would mean we also had Calvin "Mr Perfect" Johnson......

[jtagg7754]

Originally Posted by bigjayboogie

ok man...I couldn't resist...lol! You know I love Megatron!!!

I forgot we had discussed this before. Dammit ha ha ha. Good sh1t man. I can't help it, it's still a sore subject w/ me.

[Raidermofojeff]

I have no regret or second thoughts what so ever about drafting JR......He was about the only Raider first rd pick in recent years I actually liked. I'm sick of the old Raider way of always using veteran FA QBs.....

Most recently I'm sick of hodge podge compromise O-line players like we've been using for a long time with mixed results (mostly bad) I also get sick of all the scrutiny on Russell who has played behind one of the worst pass protecting o-lines in the NFL since he became a Raider. The standard for Raider O-line play was set in the 70s, and it's seems like for the last 25 years or so, were not even really trying to get there. Sure we spend a first or second here and there, but usually we go after hod dog skill players. OL gets relegated to 2nd tier FAs mostly, and every so often one of em' surpises and turns out good like Lincoln Kennedy.

[Anotharaiderfan]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

Well in all of Calvin Johnson greatness he couldn't will his team to a single victory. You say he didn't have a qb to throw him the ball that's my whole point.

If your picking first or second in the draft you need to
draft a qb AND find one in free agency.

Say whatever you want about Russell but his one good performance against the texans outwieghed anything CJ did all season because he was the main reason we won.

Sorry, i only focus on wins and losses stats are for losers.

I remember Russell leading us down the field vs. the Jets to put us in position to kick a game winning field goal to win the game more than CJ accomplished all year.

QB's make the difference not hotshot WR's how many rings do Randy Moss, T.O, Andre Johnson,Steve Smith, Ocho cinco have?
When was the last time a elite WR contributed to a championship so much so that the QB wasn't given all the credit?

[jtagg7754]

Originally Posted by Anotharaiderfan

Well in all of Calvin Johnson greatness he couldn't will his team to a single victory. You say he didn't have a qb to throw him the ball that's my whole point.

If your picking first or second in the draft you need to
draft a qb AND find one in free agency.

Say whatever you want about Russell but his one good performance against the texans outwieghed anything CJ did all season because he was the main reason we won.

Sorry, i only focus on wins and losses stats are for losers.

I remember Russell leading us down the field vs. the Jets to put us in position to kick a game winning field goal to win the game more than CJ accomplished all year.

QB's make the difference not hotshot WR's how many rings do Randy Moss, T.O, Andre Johnson,Steve Smith, Ocho cinco have?
When was the last time a elite WR contributed to a championship so much so that the QB wasn't given all the credit?

It's impossible to debate w/ ridiculously bias sports fans. Honestly, I have tried before at different time (OSU fans are some of the worst) and there's no point.

When you get down to Earth, let me know and we'll discuss.

Oh and I will remember you saying "stats are for losers" and next time you use them, like I'm sure you have before but can't this time b/c it immediately murders your side of things, I'm gonna reference it.

But just some food for thought, I'd much rather have a solid piece of a puzzle for a decade+ rather than a potential piece. I love how people like you think wins and losses solely ride on one player. My lord, am I talking to a 10 y/o???

[the_new_Jerry]

Originally Posted by 8485

If you had a choice and lets say they where both in the same draft which one would you rather have?

just curious.. but why these two?

[the_new_Jerry]

Originally Posted by the_new_Jerry

just curious.. but why these two?

I mean.. I already know the answer.. ...

but I would like to hear the reason just to make sure.

[Anotharaiderfan]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

It's impossible to debate w/ ridiculously bias sports fans. Honestly, I have tried before at different time (OSU fans are some of the worst) and there's no point.

When you get down to Earth, let me know and we'll discuss.

Oh and I will remember you saying "stats are for losers" and next time you use them, like I'm sure you have before but can't this time b/c it immediately murders your side of things, I'm gonna reference it.

But just some food for thought, I'd much rather have a solid piece of a puzzle for a decade+ rather than a potential piece. I love how people like you think wins and losses solely ride on one player. My lord, am I talking to a 10 y/o???

IMO QB's run the league

Larry Fitzgerald had a amazing seaon while Big Ben had a ok season but will you argue who had more impact for there team?

Wr's can put up astronimical numbers and still lose every single game.

So that's my point, i'm not interested in stats as the basis of a argument. Sure stats are great for supporting a argument.

But if you think a great wideout who's team loses every game has more impact than QB who has a positive effect on his teams win column then your right this debate is pointless.

In 2008 the Raiders in all there turmoil won more games than they have since 2005 with JaMarcus Russell as the starting QB. All while the greatness of a star wideout contributed to the worst record in NFL history.

I guess its about priorities.

I have never shyed away from my support of JaMarcus Russell, i have a great resolve in my support. But at the same time i am not blind i can point out the weaknesses, i believe i have a better undstanding than you do of the NFL and what's most important for a team rebuilding with hopes of winning for a sustained period of time.

Don't get frustrated and quit on me.

[jtagg7754]

Originally Posted by Anotharaiderfan

IMO QB's run the league

Larry Fitzgerald had a amazing seaon while Big Ben had a ok season but will you argue who had more impact for there team?

Wr's can put up astronimical numbers and still lose every single game.

So that's my point, i'm not interested in stats as the basis of a argument. Sure stats are great for supporting a argument.

But if you think a great wideout who's team loses every game has more impact than QB who has a positive effect on his teams win column then your right this debate is pointless.

In 2008 the Raiders in all there turmoil won more games than they have since 2005 with JaMarcus Russell as the starting QB. All while the greatness of a star wideout contributed to the worst record in NFL history.

I guess its about priorities.

I have never shyed away from my support of JaMarcus Russell, i have a great resolve in my support. But at the same time i am not blind i can point out the weaknesses, i believe i have a better undstanding than you do of the NFL and what's most important for a team rebuilding with hopes of winning for a sustained period of time.

Don't get frustrated and quit on me.

This is why I cannot debate w/ you. You're clearly bias towards Russell and you just said it in as many words. You do not understand more than me either. You want a potential piece rather than a solid piece of the puzzle. That is incorrect.

I'm not quitting on you. You're bias, I cannot debate w/ people who are bias. Sorry bout your luck.

[Anotharaiderfan]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

This is why I cannot debate w/ you. You're clearly bias towards Russell and you just said it in as many words. You do not understand more than me either. You want a potential piece rather than a solid piece of the puzzle. That is incorrect.

I'm not quitting on you. You're bias, I cannot debate w/ people who are bias. Sorry bout your luck.

Good job wavering(again)in the face of a challenge.

Your no bias act is a cop out of cowardice.

Not bias and realistic as a fan of sport, in which you have no control over. How does your view of reality count as being more realistic?

Your in over your head claiming to be a realist.

If your want to play the realist, i will be the anti-realist as i do believe.
Anti-realism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Idealists are skeptics about the physical world, maintaining either: 1) that nothing exists outside the mind, or 2) that we would have no access to a mind-independent reality even if it may exist. Realists, in contrast, hold that perceptions or sense data are caused by mind-independent objects. But this introduces the possibility of another kind of skepticism: since our understanding of causality is that the same effect can be produced by multiple causes, there is a lack of determinacy about what one is really perceiving. A concrete example of a situation where an individual's sensory input might be caused by something other than what he thinks is causing it is the brain in a vat scenario.

Your not interesed in talking football so i will challenge your philosophical view of life.

[OTF]

Originally Posted by jtagg7754

It's impossible to debate w/ ridiculously bias sports fans.

Which is why it is impossible for anyone to debate with you cause you are about as bias as it can get when it comes to Russell.