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Thread: You know, I've got nothing but love for you guys, BUT...

  1. #61
    Bram Raider's Avatar
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    I'm going to go back and read the rest of the posts in a moment, but I just wanted to say this:

    Who knows what any team has on their draft boards.
    For all we know a dozen or more teams may have had DHB as a top 10 pick.
    But given the way the NFL is and the crap we are getting, they are hardly likely to come out and say it, are they?



    And secondly, because people keep acting as if they know what will happen already during the 2009 season:

    Look at the 2007 draft. Calvin Johnson (2nd overall) was taken before Dwayne Bowe (23rd overall).
    Do you know who had more catches his rookie year?
    Bowe = 70
    Johnson = 48
    Think any Detroit fans would rather have Bowe?
    How about adding in the 2008 season?
    Bowe = 86
    Johnson = 78
    So, even though Bowe has had more catches than Johnson, would you call Johnson a reach at 2nd overall? Would you now argue that the Lions should have traded down because Bowe was available?


    Do not judge a player by what you are told before he has even played in the NFL.
    And do not judge a player as a success or failure based upon a single, rookie season.
    And as far as WRs go, do not judge them entirely upon their numbers.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_new_Jerry View Post
    No... I think you are missing the point totally.

    but you keep trying to suggest certain things..

    Just because I am a moderator and BK is the owner...

    that doesn't mean that we cannot have opinions as well.

    As fans I like to think that we enjoy taking the positive spin on it..

    because there is already enough real stress out there.. why not look at this GAME positively?

    You keep acting like we are threatening to ban you or something... when we are just trying to not let the nation slip into the another perpetual whine and complain fest of the organization...

    it just gets old.

    it has nothing to do with your critique of the draft... the fact is.. you have nothing to back what you are suggesting up.. except your opinion.

    just like BK has an opinion.. and he expressed it.

    You are not innocent here.. you are not so much brighter.. and you dont have to be shiny and happy to post here.

    but it is nice to maintain a positive environment when there really is nothing happening on the field at this point in the year.

    save it for our next 5-11 record.. then you can be the proud parent of "I told you so"
    Great post TNJ! Too bad I have to spread more rep around before giving you anymore!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by HorrorSCope View Post
    Does anyone have proof that they could or if they didn't try? Please for my sake "Shut me up" over this. Prove your side. If they didn't try, it could have been frozen when they heard someone may trade up to get him.
    From Jerry Mac's transcript of the Tom Cable press conference:

    Cable on Heyward-Bey - Inside The Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of ANG Newspapers

    Q: Thought of trading down and still getting him?

    Cable: No, that was never the plan. We knew what we wanted to do the whole time. This was the choice that we thought we had to have to move this team to the next step.

    Q: Offers to trade out of the pick?

    Cable: We never ever really talked about wanting to move. We were pretty strong about what we needed to do. Like I said, we targeted this one about a month ago and getting this team where it needs to be, and obviously thatís the ability to score more points. This was the no-question pick.

    Convinced?

  4. #64
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    If some of you would like to know how some of us were able to watch DHB and many others; then you should order espn gameplan here is the link: http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/gamepla...viewpage&ccv=0 Espn gameplan allows you to follow collegiate football players throughout their career. This is why I knew what we were getting in DHB.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frase32 View Post
    I can't believe how enamored with raw speed some people are, INCLUDING Al Davis.

    1. Jerry Rice 22,895
    2. Tim Brown 14,934
    3. James Lofton 14,004
    4. Cris Carter 13,899
    5. Henry Ellard 13,777
    6. Andre Reed 13,198
    7. Steve Largent 13,089
    8. Irving Fryar 12,785
    9. Art Monk 12,721
    10. Marvin Harrison 12,331

    Those are the top ten leading receivers in regards to yards. How many of those guys was known to have elite speed? I see ONE, ONE guy in the top ten, Ellard who might have been known for his elite speed. You're right, speed is what I would focus on when drafting a WR, especially if I am going to reach for one.......
    Huh?
    Tim Brown was really fast when he was first drafted. Capable of running a sub 4.4 forty. Can't remember where I read it, but the timed speed I recall was 4.34 when he was drafted.
    Problem is that too many people on here are too young to remember his early days.
    Lofton was a total speedster - why do you think Al traded for him?
    Irving Fryar was another speedster.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWShaddock View Post
    From Jerry Mac's transcript of the Tom Cable press conference:

    Cable on Heyward-Bey - Inside The Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of ANG Newspapers

    Q: Thought of trading down and still getting him?

    Cable: No, that was never the plan. We knew what we wanted to do the whole time. This was the choice that we thought we had to have to move this team to the next step.

    Q: Offers to trade out of the pick?

    Cable: We never ever really talked about wanting to move. We were pretty strong about what we needed to do. Like I said, we targeted this one about a month ago and getting this team where it needs to be, and obviously thatís the ability to score more points. This was the no-question pick.

    Convinced?
    This makes the pick worse, because we could've traded down.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bram Raider View Post
    Huh?
    Tim Brown was really fast when he was first drafted. Capable of running a sub 4.4 forty. Can't remember where I read it, but the timed speed I recall was 4.34 when he was drafted.
    Problem is that too many people on here are too young to remember his early days.
    Lofton was a total speedster - why do you think Al traded for him?
    Irving Fryar was another speedster.

    Tim Brown ran a sub 4.4 when we drafted him. But he hurt his knee his first year here and lost his elite speed. so in the end he becamed the Tim Brown we all know and love without his speed.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWShaddock View Post
    It's not simply that the Raiders didn't trade down, it's that they didn't even try.
    It's that they didn't even consider it.
    I'd be OK if Tom Cable came out and said "We explored ways we could possibly move down and still select Darrius, but ultimately couldn't find a deal that met our needs."
    OK ... it's still a reach, but at least you recogonize it and tried to do the right thing.
    But nope. To the contrary, Cable says the Raiders thought about trading up for him.
    It's one thing to have a different draft board than everyone else. Each team is going to have different opinions of players and how they suit their individual needs.
    It's another thing to have such a warped view of the situation that you think you may need to trade up for the kid.
    i agree completely.

    if Tom Cable knew a month ago that DHB was the pick, then they should have done their due diligence to see if they could find any takers at #7...especially with Crabtree and Monroe still on the board. but they stayed put, got nervous at the possibility of losing DHB and picked their guy.

    but had they explored possibilities, that would have given the Raiders options if they got an additional pick out of it and still taken DHB. people can compare that with Kansas City reaching for Tyson Jackson because they couldn't trade down but the difference in guaranteed money between #3 and #7 is almost double which would have been too much for other teams at #3.

    i highly doubt that there was any other team that would have taken DHB at the top half of the draft.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardoftroy View Post
    In the end, DHB may be a better choice than Crabtree. But if DHB busts out and Crabtree becomes the next Larry Fitzgerald, I dont want to hear one person defend this ridiculous organization and Al Davis anymore. If that happens, he should fire himself. Because no one but him was going to draft DHB above Crabtree.

    That is what this is about. Everyone in the league had DHB below Crabtree and Maclin. Crabtree for sure. Maybe Maclin. If those guys turn out better, everyone needs to say it like it is, Al Davis needs to hire a real GM and get out of the building.

    First off HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW SMART-ARSE, THAT EVERY SINGLE TEAM HAD DHB BELOW CRABTREE AND MACLIN?

    Because the TV experts told you so?
    Did you look at every single draft board?
    NO. SO STOP TALKING LIKE A FOOL.

    Secondly, if you get so pissed off at the way the Raiders do things then find another club to support.
    We have always done things this way. We will always do things this way.
    If you don't like it, go support the Patriots.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardoftroy View Post
    Tim Brown ran a sub 4.4 when we drafted him. But he hurt his knee his first year here and lost his elite speed. so in the end he becamed the Tim Brown we all know and love without his speed.
    Again, you never watched him.
    Tim Brown was always a threat to go deep.
    He had numerous catches of over 40 yards early (first five years) in his career.
    Go check the stats.


    Sounds like you only watched the GRuden years when Tim was way into his thirties and as with most WRs had lost a lot of speed at that time.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bram Raider View Post
    Again, you never watched him.
    Tim Brown was always a threat to go deep.
    He had numerous catches of over 40 yards early (first five years) in his career.
    Go check the stats.


    Sounds like you only watched the GRuden years when Tim was way into his thirties and as with most WRs had lost a lot of speed at that time.
    You're right Tim Brown ran a 4.3 coming out of Notre Dame. He was a big play guy kick returns and punt returns.

  12. #72
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    I gotta hand it to RFnet.. they really got the members here, but then what your getting is what comes along with that..
    with that being said, when you have over a thousand people talking on the same subject, not everyone will get along.. and then too many watching ESPN draft, since they either can't watch NFL network, or don't, and ESPN is as biased to RAIDERS, as CNN is to democrats.
    I will always enjoy the inside info, and the quality of news from the access the staff has here, but it is just too big to post, or get involved in any threads that 95% of the time don't make sense by disgruntled Raider fans, or fans that are laughing at us.
    * The Proceeding Link is not affiliated with this site nor the provider. Listed for Information purposes only!

  13. #73
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    yes i agree man. DHB was a great pick, thats who the raiders wanted and that who they got, Bill walsh was critized for drafting JOe montana cuz he was a "reach", he only won 4 superbowls and is one of the greatest QB of all time .
    Walsh said if u want a guy, go get him!!!! not what other people think.
    some of u just bite into what ESPN is and even NLF network, but remebr they alwasy bashon the riaders, so come on now let this play out,
    plus i agree about crabtree, he didnt want to be here, it was reported that his table blew a sign of relief when we drafted DHB,
    he;s not a deep trheat, systematic WR, does have a diva attitude, didnt want to be with us!!!! and his competition in Coolege wasnt so great iether except for Texas, but that a riviraly game, like us playing the chargers, ur always pumped for that, and his catch in the game was the CB mistake wchih made Crabtree loook good. and yes i remeber and forgot about carlos francis hahaha.
    DHB wants to be here, he;s humble, hungry willing to learn, and has the attitude and cahracter cable wants and this new change in the Nation, the raider nation

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BK View Post
    I'm not trying to sugar coat anything. The purpose of this thread is get everyone thinking and sharing their opinions. Sure Monroe was still there when the Raiders selected Bey, but IMO, a wide receiver was the teams most glaring need. We had horrible receivers last year! If JaMarcus is going to be successful, he needs more options! I think Heyward-Bey was the right pick for many reasons:

    1. He's fast and will give the team the deep ball threat we've been lacking

    2. He'll open the field and take the pressure off Miller, Schilens and Higgins.

    3. Did I mention he's fast? You can teach a player to hone his route running skills, make better use of his hands when trying to catch the ball, (the diamond technique), but you can't teach pure speed!

    4. DHB has an incredibly fast first step off the ball and great size, which makes it difficult to jam him off the line

    I am no expert, just an educated fan like most of you that are reading this post
    I hope I am wrong but my problem is that DHB looks like he is simply a speed guy with not much else going for him. And in todays NFL being fast by itself gets you absolutely NO WHERE. If this turns out to be James Jett part duex it will be extremly disapointing.

    I completly agree with Wr being our biggest need, I have been saying that since the season ended but I completly disagree with the Raiders decision to draft DHB at #7. If they werent happy with Crabtree or maclin ok fine I can live with that even if I dont agree. But there were other players at other positions of need that I just cant beleive the Raiders didnt have rated higher on their board than DHB that they could have taken. They could have taken a guy like Robiskie (who I wasnt real high on either) or Massaqoi in the 2nd or even Barden in the third (I think the Giants got a steal with him) and still addressed the Wr position with one or two quality talents. I just have never seen or heard anything about DHB that would justify him being that "ONE" player that the Raiders just had to have. His speed is the only thing and I think picking a guy who may not be as good a football player but boy is he fast is just plain stupid. With the Raiders draft history it looks real bad to me.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bram Raider View Post
    I'm going to go back and read the rest of the posts in a moment, but I just wanted to say this:

    Who knows what any team has on their draft boards.
    For all we know a dozen or more teams may have had DHB as a top 10 pick.
    But given the way the NFL is and the crap we are getting, they are hardly likely to come out and say it, are they?



    And secondly, because people keep acting as if they know what will happen already during the 2009 season:

    Look at the 2007 draft. Calvin Johnson (2nd overall) was taken before Dwayne Bowe (23rd overall).
    Do you know who had more catches his rookie year?
    Bowe = 70
    Johnson = 48
    Think any Detroit fans would rather have Bowe?
    How about adding in the 2008 season?
    Bowe = 86
    Johnson = 78
    So, even though Bowe has had more catches than Johnson, would you call Johnson a reach at 2nd overall? Would you now argue that the Lions should have traded down because Bowe was available?


    Do not judge a player by what you are told before he has even played in the NFL.
    And do not judge a player as a success or failure based upon a single, rookie season.
    And as far as WRs go, do not judge them entirely upon their numbers.
    i don't disagree with your points, but imo the Bowe vs. Johnson example isn't a good argument. Bowe may have more career receptions but Johnson was clearly the bigger impact player in 2008.

    sure Bowe had 86 receptions to 78 but Calvin Johnson had 1331yds and
    12TDs compared to Bowe's 1022yds and 7TDs. Bowe has benefited greatly early in his career to play with Tony Gonzalez and does most of his damage on short routes. Johnson can do it short or long and is a threat to score every time he touches the ball.

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