[RaiderDee]

Originally Posted by HorrorSCope

Part interesting:

"You've got to be willing to release people," he said Sunday. "When guys are in the training room, (and) they're not out here practicing, you've to be willing to release them and live with it, and pick other people up for more competition."

So basicaly on the Raiders if you get injured your screwed. That's a real development plan? What does something like the union have to say about this? It sounds good in one sence what he's saying, but this is far far from that country we live in now. He sounds pretty young with that. I'm sure he has better intentions though, seriously.

-----

"It was the verbal equivalent of a Hail Mary pass. Kiffin has thrown a lot of them this year. He can't get his disenchanted patron, owner Al Davis, to give him any real power, so he has to remind people that he is coaching this season with one hand tied behind his back and a rope looped around his neck."

And the stats shown we are right there with the rest of the leauge in terms of moving players around and actually a little ahead of the curve. So basically then the whole league is playing with one hand tied. And any coach needs to win to survive, I will grant you that the time is a bit shorter in Oakland to get something going.

But what Kiffin said was right on the money! We needed depth at the LB position, namely the backup MLB and starting SLB. All that we broght in to help compete for thise positions was Hartwell (which was a longshot) and Adam Archuleta who hasn't played LB since college. Meanwhile, we still have Grant Irons who has seen very little actual practice time since returning to the Raiders. So as it stands, the best LB depth we have is Robert Thomas and MAYBE Sam Williams and that's it. Three starters and one very good back up. We released LB Malik Jackson to sign a punter? How about release Irons and keep Jackson who has practiced the entire camp?

Meanwhile, we haven't brought in an offensive tackle to compete against Kwame Harris (servicable in pass protection) and "Super" Mario Henderson, and Cornell Green. THAT'S who's protecting our franchise QB? Mark Wilson is out for the season. In the meanwhile, we have an undersized converted TE/DE/DT practicing at the RT spot. Instead of hitting the free agent market for a STARTING RT, we sign a rookie undrafted free agent cornerback Nick Sanchez?

And speaking of defensive backs, when was the last time John Bowie practiced? Last year?

[POKE]

You know what. Screw it. Who wants a head coach that tells the truth? Does no good. Coach speaks his mind people cry and say he is whinning and should shut up. Just sit back and become Lane Kiffin C3P0 like the rest of his predessors except Jon Gruden. Some of you people must like listening to the Mike White's, Joe Bugel's, Norv Turner's,Arth Shell's.

F-- it.

If Lane Kiffin don't make the cut then Al Davis himself should coach the god damn team. Or just go to Macys and buy some manicans and put Raider hats on them to be on the sideline as position coaches. Then keep the trainers, water and towel boys, and Al can call the offensive, defensive, and special team plays in the ear pieces of the team captains.

Then he can't blame a soul for not running the perfect Al Davis football stategy. And nobody will have to worry about coaches whinning in the paper because manicans can't talk.

There ya go.

[HorrorSCope]

I do agree we have strange depth on this team and not so great depth. But the words he says is like if you aren't at practice and your mending, just go home so we can get some healthier one's in here. I think most knowledgeable fans know we are built backwards. The lack of having good depth is no surprise. You need imo good starters first before you get good depth. It's not that realistic to think you will turn it all around in a year. How bouts we get a competitive starting 22 first and do the best we can with depth, then work on better depth.

[migman33]

Originally Posted by HorrorSCope

I do agree we have strange depth on this team and not so great depth. But the words he says is like if you aren't at practice and your mending, just go home so we can get some healthier one's in here. I think most knowledgeable fans know we are built backwards. The lack of having good depth is no surprise. You need imo good starters first before you get good depth. It's not that realistic to think you will turn it all around in a year. How bouts we get a competitive starting 22 first and do the best we can with depth, then work on better depth.

Amen, why worry about Depth before we worry about Starters? Doesnt make sense to me either!!! And by the looks of our first 2 pre-seasons games we have some very good talent on the team so i dont see why we are crying or complaining. I know Al has his faults and made his mistakes but they are his to make, and it looks like hes done everything in his power to get us back winning this year i.e. good players on both sides of the ball and good coaches in all the right places i.e knapp, rathman, kiffin, cable. So if we fail this year is it really Al's and the front offices fault? Players? Coaches? Fans? Maybe we should stop complaining and start fociusing on what we have and the next up coming game!!!!

[Hawaiian Raider]

Gee Gwen, thanks a lot - you b'tch!

While many make good points, I sense some up close and personal feedback from Dee up there ^. What he posted makes too much sense, I guess.

How long ago was Kiffin given that resignation letter to sign - allegedly?

[RaiderDee]

Originally Posted by HorrorSCope

I do agree we have strange depth on this team and not so great depth. But the words he says is like if you aren't at practice and your mending, just go home so we can get some healthier one's in here. I think most knowledgeable fans know we are built backwards. The lack of having good depth is no surprise. You need imo good starters first before you get good depth. It's not that realistic to think you will turn it all around in a year. How bouts we get a competitive starting 22 first and do the best we can with depth, then work on better depth.

That's not what Kiffin said at all. Kiffin spoke about us getting guys who are on the bench or training room from day one. Not draft players, but honest to God vet players. We signed a re-habing veteran Greg Wesley, practice no more than 5 times in all of camp, just to cut him. We signed a rehabing vet in Javon Walker who has yet made a catch and had only practice one full two-a-day workout in ALL of training camp AND wanted to retire at one point. We signed vet Grant Irons who to this day is STILL on the injured list.

It's one thing to have a guy get injured in camp and quite another who has current health issues when signing him.

Also, it's not that the team is looking for back ups. Kiffin obviously wants guys who can start. But if they are edged out by a better player, so be it. That is what competition brings. You bring in the BEST guys you can find and then when you find your true starter in the process, your back up is not too far off from the guy who beat him for the job. Right now, there is a steep drop off from a lot of the starter positions to the back up roles.

[RaiderDee]

I posted a portion of this Kiffin discussion in the Premium Forum last Sunday (from where this article was written about). Here is a Kiffin quote that says it best:

"There's not very much competition on this field. Where, some other guys have been released other places and people are picking them up. You'd like to pick some of those guys up and bring them in because you know they are in shape because they've been in another camps and (can) push some of our guys. Unfortunately, there's some guys on our roster right now that should be borderline guys, that as of today would make it just because we don't have anybody else."

[nakolo2]

You know what? lets turn this a differection ladies and gents. We all know the obvious so like Kiff said "its a dead issue".

What I do wanna raise the negative press the beat writers are giving. yea..yea i know its to be expected but gimmie a friggin break! Don't tell us "Kiffin should be saying what he's saying cause of what the boss will do. Or harping on the fact that he's a lame duck coach"

How bout state the obvious and side with the coach who, if you had half a brain, know that HE'S RIGHT!!" Ever thought of actually being objective which is your job in the 1st place you dumb fking beat writer?? Gwen Knapp i'm surprised wrote this article considering she usually is a positive voice for the Raidrers.

Why don't these cowardly journalists speak say what they're REALLY thinking for a a change??

[AutumnWind32]

Originally Posted by RaiderDee

That's not what Kiffin said at all. Kiffin spoke about us getting guys who are on the bench or training room from day one. Not draft players, but honest to God vet players. We signed a re-habing veteran Greg Wesley, practice no more than 5 times in all of camp, just to cut him. We signed a rehabing vet in Javon Walker who has yet made a catch and had only practice one full two-a-day workout in ALL of training camp AND wanted to retire at one point. We signed vet Grant Irons who to this day is STILL on the injured list.

It's one thing to have a guy get injured in camp and quite another who has current health issues when signing him.

Also, it's not that the team is looking for back ups. Kiffin obviously wants guys who can start. But if they are edged out by a better player, so be it. That is what competition brings. You bring in the BEST guys you can find and then when you find your true starter in the process, your back up is not too far off from the guy who beat him for the job. Right now, there is a steep drop off from a lot of the starter positions to the back up roles.

Exactly right Dee. And to add to that, two of the injured players who are being afforded the opportunity to mend, meanwhile taking up two valuable roster spots, have NO business making the team; Irons and Bowie.

So it's not that Kiffin wants to replace injured players because they're unable to practice. He want to replace injured players who aren't going to make the roster anyways!

And I still can't believe Al has signed a K and P instead of letting the K do both. Pretty ridiculous.

[SLVR&BLK]

Originally Posted by RaiderDee

That's not what Kiffin said at all. Kiffin spoke about us getting guys who are on the bench or training room from day one. Not draft players, but honest to God vet players. We signed a re-habing veteran Greg Wesley, practice no more than 5 times in all of camp, just to cut him. We signed a rehabing vet in Javon Walker who has yet made a catch and had only practice one full two-a-day workout in ALL of training camp AND wanted to retire at one point. We signed vet Grant Irons who to this day is STILL on the injured list.

It's one thing to have a guy get injured in camp and quite another who has current health issues when signing him.

Also, it's not that the team is looking for back ups. Kiffin obviously wants guys who can start. But if they are edged out by a better player, so be it. That is what competition brings. You bring in the BEST guys you can find and then when you find your true starter in the process, your back up is not too far off from the guy who beat him for the job. Right now, there is a steep drop off from a lot of the starter positions to the back up roles.

Sept. 8 isn't that far off, the Raiders will be cutting down the roster and getting ready for the season to start, not bringing in mass free agents for open competitions, i'ts a little late for that.
The free agents that could help us would be some players who will be cut when teams make their final cutdowns.
But there are other limits to all this, you have the salary cap, you have a limited number of players that can be on your roster, there are plenty of things to consider when shaping an NFL roster.

Kiffin probably just wants Al to listen to him a little more, i don't have a problem with that.

[Wormwood]

While I'm ticked like many here that the likes of Grant Irons, Arman Shields, Bowie et al are taking valuable roster spots away, I don't think we'll see anyone of note available until final cuts are made. Even Jerry Mac addressed this today in his live Q & A segment. Compounding matters is that we have to use up two additional spots for a kicker and punter.

[HorrorSCope]

Originally Posted by RaiderDee

That's not what Kiffin said at all. Kiffin spoke about us getting guys who are on the bench or training room from day one. Not draft players, but honest to God vet players. We signed a re-habing veteran Greg Wesley, practice no more than 5 times in all of camp, just to cut him. We signed a rehabing vet in Javon Walker who has yet made a catch and had only practice one full two-a-day workout in ALL of training camp AND wanted to retire at one point. We signed vet Grant Irons who to this day is STILL on the injured list.

It's one thing to have a guy get injured in camp and quite another who has current health issues when signing him.

Also, it's not that the team is looking for back ups. Kiffin obviously wants guys who can start. But if they are edged out by a better player, so be it. That is what competition brings. You bring in the BEST guys you can find and then when you find your true starter in the process, your back up is not too far off from the guy who beat him for the job. Right now, there is a steep drop off from a lot of the starter positions to the back up roles.

Fair enough, then let me work from that. We did get FA's and more then most. For what I belive is 30 years we did the best in getting the players we want. This slide has now allowed us to know how it is like to be the Bengal's. Meaning FA's aren't looking to Oakland first. That is why we over payed, but that is now the position we are win until we turn the corner and become competitive year in and out.

Who isn't for better players? I'm sure there are plenty that Al would have liked to have. They have to be willing and the cap has to be there. Some of kiffs schtick is refreshing to see but then I feel he may go a bit too far. The media in the bay likes it though, it gives them reason to talk about the Raiders, which means reason to talk bad about Al, yay! As if the 9'ers are any better from top to bottom.

It would be great to know how commited kiffin is to us, in the case we were on our way to being a playoff team again. I get the feeling though no matter what is done here, he's gone. I think that is why we are getting such blunt statements.

[Naphtali]

AL DAVIS

"When lance wins more than he loses hell get more power, until then he needs to learn patience and mature as football mind"

[guydon]

I think kiffin is just frustrated with the whole thing. I think Al, roster limits, Javon Walker, and everything else are wearing on him. He is young and showing his age by making the comments he has made. I think what he is saying is "hey, when this thing is a trainwreck, don't blame me, because I'm doing evey thing I'm allowed to do". I think it shows a sevre lack of confidence on his part to be able to make players play better than what they are, but isn't that what a coach is supposed to do? I like the guy and I hope he is around for awhile and we can be on the winning end of his maturation process.

[Raidermofojeff]

Lane isn't gonna be here when his contract expires! Plain and simple...........
It sucks................................