Dr. Z on Howie and Al - Oakland Raiders Forum | Message Board

**madstork** · #1 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 01:16 PM

The topic of "do Al and Howie have a problem with each other?" comes up from time to time. Dr. Z shed a little light in his mailbag today:

Quote:

• Not exactly a draft question, but Steve of Naperville, Ill., read that if Chris Long might have wound up a Raider, it would have angered his dad, Howie. Why? This is deep, and very little of it has come out. To put it in its simplest form, Al Davis said at one time that he felt that Howie retired a few years too early. The problem is that Howie's body was pretty well shot when he packed it in, and he always resented that statement. Even now, he's looking at extensive corrective surgery to get his shoulder right, his back, and God knows what else. Why is it so bad? Because he spent a whole career facing the meat grinder. He played left end, the power side, in the base defense, and he'd drop down inside at other times. Not once did he ever get to put on a wide rush from the open side, as Greg Townsend did. Howie, coming off the edge at RDE, would have raised all kinds of hell, but he never got the chance to find out.

**JQNJRaider** · #2 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 01:22 PM

Howie, coming off the edge at RDE, would have raised all kinds of hell, but he never got the chance to find out.

I thought he did raise hell. Isn't that why he's in the HOF?

**Raider Ran** · #3 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 01:27 PM

Dr Z always trying to stir the pot.

btredway · #4 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 01:51 PM

I remember when AL made that statement. At least one time, it was when he introduced Art Shell for the second time as coach.

**HITMAN** · #5 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JQNJRaider

Howie, coming off the edge at RDE, would have raised all kinds of hell, but he never got the chance to find out.

I thought he did raise hell. Isn't that why he's in the HOF?

Yeah, but not from the blind side, imagine what he would have done on the right side!

Jnova · #6 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 02:54 PM

Probably why Chris seemed lukewarm at best about the idea of playing for the Raiders.

**HITMAN** · #7 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Ran

Dr Z always trying to stir the pot.

I don't think he was stirring the pot bro, just shedding some light for those who don't know the whole story... it's water under the bridge, Howie is still a Raider, his kid is a Ram, his loyalty will ride with Chris when they play, that's the nature of the beast.

RaiderintheUK · #8 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:04 PM

Wasn't it the case that Howie had not long signed a new contract and then retired just a short time into it? I'm sure that would've bothered Al also.

neverlooking · #9 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:10 PM

Howie and Townsend were great together.
Howie has given props to Greg in the past and has said Greg was underrated.

**HITMAN** · #10 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderintheUK

Wasn't it the case that Howie had not long signed a new contract and then retired just a short time into it? I'm sure that would've bothered Al also.

Why should Davis be bothered by that? I think Howie walking away when he did, probably save him from more complications later on in life, can't fault a guy for quitting because he felt he couldn't give it 100%.

RaiderintheUK · #11 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HITMAN

Why should Davis be bothered by that? I think Howie walking away when he did, probably save him from more complications later on in life, can't fault a guy for quitting because he felt he couldn't give it 100%.

Well if you had paid someone millions in guaranteed money and they walk away just a fraction of the way through the contract term, then that is nothing but a very poor deal for the team. I don't even know if this is true of course.

Jnova · #12 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:44 PM

I was always under the impression that Howie left to pursue other options, like acting and broadcasting.

If Al gave Howie a new contract only to have him leave to pursue acting in horrible movies like "Firestorm" I could understand Al's frustration.

I dont know how ravaged his body was at the time of his retirement. However, I know Howie mentioned in an interviewed that he would have stuck around a couple more years, if he had known the team was going to return to Oakland.

I also know that Al tried to talk him into making a comeback after he was inducted into the Hall, around 99 or 2000. Howie makes mention of this during the 83 Raiders episode of "Americas Game"

During that show Howie also says "Ive always called him Mr Davis and still do" so they may not be best friends, but I think there is still respect for one another.

Al did come off sounding slightly like a bitter old man when he mentioned Howie's retirement at Art's press conference. That didn't sit well with me either. He also mentioned Bo Jacksons injury as another bad break which came during the Shell I era.

I can see offering some kind of explanation as to why the Shell I era didnt work out, but there were other ways to do it without taking a jab at Howie 13 years later. If there really is bitterness between them its a shame because Howie has always been a great ambassador for the Raiders. No media figure has given us the kind of love that Howie has done over the years.

**HITMAN** · #13 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderintheUK

Well if you had paid someone millions in guaranteed money and they walk away just a fraction of the way through the contract term, then that is nothing but a very poor deal for the team. I don't even know if this is true of course.

Well, NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, so Davis wasn't out money when Howie retired, Davis pulls blunders all the time that aren't good for the team like hiring and firing coaches every year, but a player retiring is somehow bad for Davis? I don't get that logic.

**HITMAN** · #14 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jnova

I was always under the impression that Howie left to pursue other options, like acting and broadcasting.

If Al gave Howie a new contract only to have him leave to pursue acting in horrible movies like "Firestorm" I could understand Al's frustration.

I dont know how ravaged his body was at the time of his retirement. However, I know Howie mentioned in an interviewed that he would have stuck around a couple more years, if he had known the team was going to return to Oakland.

I also know that Al tried to talk him into making a comeback after he was inducted into the Hall, around 99 or 2000. Howie makes mention of this during the 83 Raiders episode of "Americas Game"

During that show Howie also says "Ive always called him Mr Davis and still do" so they may not be best friends, but I think there is still respect for one another.

Al did come off sounding slightly like a bitter old man when he mentioned Howie's retirement at Art's press conference. That didn't sit well with me either. He also mentioned Bo Jacksons injury as another bad break which came during the Shell I era.

I can see offering some kind of explanation as to why the Shell I era didnt work out, but there were other ways to do it without taking a jab at Howie 13 years later. If there really is bitterness between them its a shame because Howie has always been a great ambassador for the Raiders. No media figure has given us the kind of love that Howie has done over the years.

Howie felt he was done and I really don't see how that's Davis' concern. He didn't retire to be a movie start or pursue other interests, he walked away because it had taken a toll on his body. This idea his retirement put the Raiders in a bad way is a bit off, they were already on a steady decline by that time, they were an old team.

And you are dead on about Davis, why make a comment about Long retiring at Shell's press conference, Davis is always willing to want to blame the woes of the organization rather than accept some responsibility, do you really think one player retiring is the reason they started to be bad, especially when that player was a defensive lineman? Quarterback most likely we saw what Gannon's retirement did, but not a defensive lineman.