Dr. Z on Howie and Al

[ekgraider]

Al is right Howie is wrong, no explanation needed ; )

[RaiderintheUK]

Originally Posted by HITMAN

Well, NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, so Davis wasn't out money when Howie retired, Davis pulls blunders all the time that aren't good for the team like hiring and firing coaches every year, but a player retiring is somehow bad for Davis? I don't get that logic.

Signing bonuses, option bonuses etc are all guaranteed money credited to the player's bank balance as soon as they have completed their signature at the bottom of their new contract. And the only way a team can ever hope to get that money back is to take that player to court and sue him for breach of contract. However I doubt you could successfully sue any player for feeling banged up and who just wants to retire. Also I have never heard of the Raider sueing their players for the repayment of their signing bonuses - I think Al shows a lot of loyalty to his players and therefore wouldn't pull a stunt like that. Unlike the Donkeys who have and will continue to sue their players for breach of contract.


Assuming this is true (and I don't know if it is), if Howie's contract had come to an end and he made no noises about feeling his time was due etc and, instead, signed a new contract worth millions in guaranteed signing bonuses. But then just 12 months into his new contract he walks away, then basically that was a poor deal for the Raiders. It's impossible to say if Howie genuinely felt he could see out his new contract but just broke down considerably in the first 12 months of it, or if he kinda suspected he would never see the end of it and planned to walk away just a short time into it. That we will never know. I hope it's the former. Either way, the Raiders would've lost millions in bonuses paid.

[kultan]

Maybe Howie didn't want to be another Jim Otto who is a walking shell now. Maybe Al was spoiled. Fact is that Howie knows his body a lot better than Al does so Al's comments are out of line. Paying someone money doesn't give you the right to make their life later in their life miserable.

[disposeablehero]

Originally Posted by ekgraider

Al is right Howie is wrong, no explanation needed ; )

I can't believe some of the comments here, Howie had every right to step down for his own health when ever he wants to, no one owned him. He has to look out for himself, everyone has that right.

[madstork]

Originally Posted by RaiderintheUK

Signing bonuses, option bonuses etc are all guaranteed money credited to the player's bank balance as soon as they have completed their signature at the bottom of their new contract. And the only way a team can ever hope to get that money back is to take that player to court and sue him for breach of contract. However I doubt you could successfully sue any player for feeling banged up and who just wants to retire. Also I have never heard of the Raider sueing their players for the repayment of their signing bonuses - I think Al shows a lot of loyalty to his players and therefore wouldn't pull a stunt like that. Unlike the Donkeys who have and will continue to sue their players for breach of contract.


Assuming this is true (and I don't know if it is), if Howie's contract had come to an end and he made no noises about feeling his time was due etc and, instead, signed a new contract worth millions in guaranteed signing bonuses. But then just 12 months into his new contract he walks away, then basically that was a poor deal for the Raiders. It's impossible to say if Howie genuinely felt he could see out his new contract but just broke down considerably in the first 12 months of it, or if he kinda suspected he would never see the end of it and planned to walk away just a short time into it. That we will never know. I hope it's the former. Either way, the Raiders would've lost millions in bonuses paid.

I think you're confusing eras. There's no way the contract Howie signed in '93 had millions of guaranteed dollars in it.

I think one reason people don't realize the beating he took is that he looks healthy. He looks like he could still play. But as Dr. Z noted, the Raiders always gave Howie the dirty work and he did it well without complaint. He never got the glamourous job of lining out wide and exploiting a TE or tackle one on one like Townsend did. That's why idiots like Sal Palontonio can say he was "overrated" because his sack numbers weren't as impressive as some other big name players. I've always given Dr. Z credit for understanding Howie's importance to the Raiders and greatness as a player...

[stork44]

Originally Posted by HITMAN

I don't think he was stirring the pot bro, just shedding some light for those who don't know the whole story... it's water under the bridge, Howie is still a Raider, his kid is a Ram, his loyalty will ride with Chris when they play, that's the nature of the beast.

That's true...but you would be in denial if you think 'Z' is not a big wind-bag that has no problem with...stirring the pot when he can!!!!

[stork44]

Originally Posted by disposeablehero

Pretty sad 2 grown men can't be mature and let it go, I mean come on, pathetic.

Thanks Dr. Phil.....

[Raider Ran]

Originally Posted by HITMAN

Howie felt he was done and I really don't see how that's Davis' concern. He didn't retire to be a movie start or pursue other interests, he walked away because it had taken a toll on his body. This idea his retirement put the Raiders in a bad way is a bit off, they were already on a steady decline by that time, they were an old team.

And you are dead on about Davis, why make a comment about Long retiring at Shell's press conference, Davis is always willing to want to blame the woes of the organization rather than accept some responsibility, do you really think one player retiring is the reason they started to be bad, especially when that player was a defensive lineman? Quarterback most likely we saw what Gannon's retirement did, but not a defensive lineman.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner....

[Raiderboz]

Originally Posted by Jnova

Probably why Chris seemed lukewarm at best about the idea of playing for the Raiders.

Or just maybe it could've been having to live up to the legend of his father in the same uniform

Howie always made the statement that if he knew the Raiders were moving back to Oakland in 1995, he might have played longer.

[DarthRaider]

Originally Posted by RaiderintheUK

Well if you had paid someone millions in guaranteed money and they walk away just a fraction of the way through the contract term, then that is nothing but a very poor deal for the team. I don't even know if this is true of course.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there was guaranteed money when Howie was playing. You signed a contract and rolled the dice....