You're not going to like this ... Glenn Dickey column on Raiders

[HitStick]

Originally Posted by Charger

Abandoning the working man in Oakland for Glam Land did cost a lot of fans, especially among the those my age (50) and older. My uncles, who were diehard season ticket holders, don't give a damn about the Raiders now. Of course they are in their 80s so maybe it's not relevant.

Many of those "diehards" you speak of conveniently migrated like refugees to the niner fan base. I have spoken to many older generations how they were such Raider fans before they moved and still to this day hate Al Davis for it. The Raiders OWNED the bay area before they moved. How easy the niners made it to become their fans.

[paul0660]

EVERY WORD TRUE


I guess that is why they keep Dickey around, he does write some worthwhile stuff between playing golf and flapping his jaw on KNBR interviews.

[bigjayboogie]

He's correct about a lot of things however, I think it's a stretch to say their record would have been better. In the Gruden era we returned to greatness...then we let him go and have had horrible coaches ever since...not to mention our superstars got old and retired...and gannon broke his kneck. So there is a lot of miss fortune as well. When Norv Turner got here there was not a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball. Al tried to rebuild the team with free agents...I just look at the hire of Kiffin as an admission that we are truly going to rebuild with young talent. We are in a similar boat as the niners a couple of years back..course they got there do to the salary cap.

My heart broke when the Raiders left...and I also remember all of the games that the city of Oakland played too. And Pete Rozell promising Oakland that he would never let the raiders leave...so don't worry about it.

[cat444]

to move to l.a. was a bad move , but for me it's not the reason why the raiders has some problem now , in fact we was very fantastic in the 70's and 80's , we had some good years in the 90's , so we suck since only 4 years , but we forget we loose all our o-line in 2 years, we loose in 2 years, mo collins, kennedy, robbins and middleton, it was a fantastic line and we loose all these players in 2 years, it's very difficult to rebuilt an o-line , i am sur at the time the o-line will play well the raiders will be again one of the best team on the league, just to be patient .

[Raider_Len]

Stating the obvious.

[paul0660]

Stating the obvious.

Not to many Len. Many believe every breath Al takes is committed to the Raidahs.

You can't blame the guy for having a big head.........$18,500 investment.................LOL

[TwYsTeD]

Pretty good article

[HITMAN]

Dickey is spot on!

[CoRaidersFan]

Originally Posted by OWShaddock

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...dickey2205.htm

There are some valid issues for discussion ... such as whether the Raiders would have been better off had they never left Oakland.

As much as I agree with the article what is the point OW? Nothing can be undone or made up for. It won't help the team now. I am focusing on the current crew and what they are doing to get the team back to winning records and playoff appearances.

[crizpynutz]

It's a good, brutal and honest article. I'm an East Coast guy and I never liked the move and even I way over here resented it. I still followed my team and loved them, but they were always Oakland to me.

Davis has to take blame with accolades and this move is a case that he needs to take his medicine over. The simple fact that they are back in Oakland should be testiment enough to prove they never should've left.

They lost many fans when they left and in turn weren't there to build new, younger fans for many years. Bay Area kids growing up in the late 80's and early 90's had the local 49'ers teams of the Bill Walsh era to like. Why like that team that left town and isn't as good?

Adding to the problem was Davis' stubborn behavior to prove he was right and that politics be damned he was going to get what he wanted. Guess what, he still hasn't gotten the stadium he wanted and the move probably set the Raiders back in that regard to the point where Davis may never see it.

The one thing that can and will fix everything for the future, is winning. The team has to find some consistent success and maintain it. That will bring back the fans and the money.

[16 to 88]

Yes, some of it has validity, here’s a few of the lowlights…

Then Davis decided he wanted to move his team to Los Angeles, this after L.A. Rams owner Carroll Rosenbloom had accepted a lucrative deal to move his team to Anaheim.

Clever choice of words Glenn, in actuality Davis was FORCED to move his team because he saw the wave of free agency coming long before anyone else and when he went to the Oakland-Alameda County Coliesum arena about revamping the place they fought him at every turn.

For my 1991 history of the Raiders, “Just Win, Baby,” I talked to both Los Angeles and Oakland negotiators, and the facts showed that Davis, despite the smoke screen he put up, wanted to move his team.

Yep, yep, how right you are Glenn. It was Davis who instigated the big deals in major league baseball that he pointed out to the other owners, would eventually happen to football.

He did this purposely to set the wheels in motion to move his team to L.A.

In 1980, Davis and the Raiders joined a lawsuit by the L.A. Coliseum against the NFL. Eventually, they prevailed, and the Raiders moved to Los Angeles in 1982.

No **** Sherlock! He makes it sound as if one day in 1980 he woke up out of bed and started a lawsuit when in reality for years he negoatied in good faith (fact) to get the Coliseum fixed up so he could compete with the rest of the league because he knew what was coming.

“I think Davis wanted to come to a major city,” said Bill Robertson, who negotiated both the original deal and the 1990 extension for the L.A. Coliseum. “He wanted to be a big fish in a big bowl instead of a big fish in a little bowl.”

Robertson won a bet with Los Angeles Examiner columnist Melvin Durslag, who thought Davis was just using Los Angeles to boost the ante in Oakland. Robertson was sure Davis would move the Raiders to L.A., and he was right.

First, there’s that word again. Glenn, did you not state earlier in you’re article the “facts showed”? So which is it Glenn? Is it fact or belief? Which one is the lie in you’re article?

Second, that was a toughie for Robertson, a 50-50 chance he would be correct, and if he was wrong, who cares? Seriously, who would really care?

Third, IF the coliseum had given Davis exactly what he asked for he would not have been able to move the team in the first place! AND let’s take a peek at history to see if at that point the coliseum should have given Davis exactly what he wanted, shall we?

1963-1980
3 super bowl appearances
2 super bowl championships
2 conference championships
9 division championships
Who knows how many wins at that point compared to losses (200-50?)

Not to mention some of the most memorable games in the history off football.

A serious amount of money for the coliseum and the city of Oakland because, gee, I don’t know, because AL DAVIS built a perennial powerhouse? YA THINK?!

Call me crazy, but I’m under the impression that he deserved EXACTLY what he was asking for instead of some compromise. Oh, and so did a court of law.

Sheeze! The Arizona Cardinals just got a incredible new stadium despite the fact they have never done nothing and there owner is a cheapskate.

Davis has never really gotten his magic touch back and, at age 78, it’s doubtful he ever will.

Huh?! Did we not win the west in 2000, 2001 and 2002? Where we not in the SB in 2002?

On top of that he fails to mention that the very thing that helped drive Davis out of Oakland (free agency) is the very thing that stops teams such as our beloved Raiders from ever becoming what they once where.

Though I thought I knew football

That’s what you get for thinking.

I had been a college football writer earlier for the Chronicle

Sorry to hear that.

at my first sit-down with Davis, I realized how little I knew. I shut my mouth and listened to him.

Encore… Encore!

[bigjayboogie]

Originally Posted by HitStick

Many of those "diehards" you speak of conveniently migrated like refugees to the niner fan base. I have spoken to many older generations how they were such Raider fans before they moved and still to this day hate Al Davis for it. The Raiders OWNED the bay area before they moved. How easy the niners made it to become their fans.

yeah...we won't even talk about the raider fans that went to the Oakland City Council meetings and called the sports talk stations but when the raiders came back didn't buy any season tickets. Granted Oakland screwed it up, but season tickets still were nowhere near what it should have been for all those DIE HARD fans...

[Hungary87]

It seems fair to say that the move(s) did not have a positive effect on the franchise. But I would hesitate to call that the main reason for the poorer performance of the last 20-25 years.

Rather I think it is poor decisions on both coaching hirings and player personnel, including the draft. The coaching choices and draft performance has been critiqued many times on this forum, enough has been said.

But let's just look at the QB position - arguably the most important on the team - as a key example of where the team has failed in talent management. Over this recent period, with only 7 winning seasons, I'd say we only had good QB play in about 6 years: 2 seasons with Hostetler and 4 with Gannon. We went 12-4 in 1990 despite Jay Schroeder, ditto for Marc Wilson in '85. Other years we have suffered through the likes of Rusty Hilger, Donald Hollas, Jeff George, Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks. Not since Ken Stabler have we seen a home grown Raider QB succeed. It's hard to win consistently without a good QB.

The other interesting facet of the article was Al Davis's success with switching positions and reclamation projects. Problem is he has gone to the well one time too many. Instead of Billy Cannon at TE, we have Randall Williams. Not to mention Tyler Brayton at LB.

Well nobody can get it right all the time, I don't want to be piling on. It's just frustrating for all of us to see the franchise like this.

[RipGut Cannibal]

Originally Posted by hellbound

thats a very good artilce. pretty truthful also.

Did you really get to third base with Kelly Kawowski? Cuz that would be Awesome!

[HITMAN]

Huh?! Did we not win the west in 2000, 2001 and 2002? Where we not in the SB in 2002?

On top of that he fails to mention that the very thing that helped drive Davis out of Oakland (free agency) is the very thing that stops teams such as our beloved Raiders from ever becoming what they once where.

Let's not get all misty eyed about that success rate when you compare it with the first 20 years of Davis' tenure compared to the last 20 years they are like night and day...