What do you look at in a QB?

[Jimi18]

this is a honest question...

What does one look for when trying to rate a QB?

Walter for example... many say he is horrible, but how different is he than any other QB we had since Gannon? could Gannon have got drives going.. would he had prevented Whitted and Morant not to fumble?

how is Walter "NOT" capible, is all i am asking???

i do not want to here..
"cause he suks"

i want to know what can/may keep him from being a starter on the Raiders soon?

[RealRaider]

He like all young QB's needs to work on his decision making skills. Learn to read defenses. BUT...with this line its virtually impossible for him to do that. Brooks has years of experience on him, but could do no better. With our line his rookie type mistakes were blown up 10 fold. He not only made the young QB mistakes when he had time, but he made the "any QB" mistakes because he was running for his life.

Give him a decent O-line, let him make his mistakes and then we can see if he is the future. He might even be better because he was behind such a bad O-Line to start out with. He had to learn under extreme fire. Get some good linemen in here and some quality coaches and lets see what he can do.

If we stay status quo next season the kid doesn't stand a chance.

[Jimi18]

so would there be a QB out there that we would be able to use??
would Vick be better since he woukld become our Jordan, and pass it when he is open??

just curious then if our Line continues to stink, then why does so many people hate wlater??

thanks for your comments real raider. Btw

[RealRaider]

I think some of the Walter hating, as others have pointed out, is because of the Madden effect. Everyone that plays is suppose to be perfect, if not trade them for someone else. No one gets time to develop, its either now or I go to game options and trade the guy. Not everyone comes into the league and is an instant success. Look at our boy Gannon, he was a journeyman for years before he became league MVP. Bradshaw had his problems, I seem to remember Elway lining up behind the tackle on more than one occasion. To quote others "we are a microwave society". Just pop it in and it comes out done to perfection. Some things just don't work like that though.

[Jimi18]

I think some of the Walter hating, as others have pointed out, is because of the Madden effect. Everyone that plays is suppose to be perfect, if not trade them for someone else. No one gets time to develop, its either now or I go to game options and trade the guy. Not everyone comes into the league and is an instant success. Look at our boy Gannon, he was a journeyman for years before he became league MVP. Bradshaw had his problems, I seem to remember Elway lining up behind the tackle on more than one occasion. To quote others "we are a microwave society". Just pop it in and it comes out done to perfection. Some things just don't work like that though.

i often wondered if some of it was the Madden thing...
he is only a 74, so he suks... yet, he is the only one i seem to be able to hit moss with on the deep ball??

i agree about the era (society) we were in the playoffs 4 years in a row, now that we have not made them for 4 years, everyone thinks we never even won anything...

kids now 14, saw us when they were 10, and never saw us as a winning franchise in there lifetime...

hopefully 4 years from now we will be looking at one maybe 2 more rings

[JFF]

Playing behind this line has led Walt to develop some bad habits. Look at how often he is throwing the checkdown. (Because he is getting killed.) He is dropping his throwing shoulder to protect the ball (cause he is getting killed.) His mechanics (feet shoulders) are going backwards, IMO.

I don't know. My gut instinct is that we have decided QB development is just too much work. Rather than try to repair/develop Walt, we are just going to move along. It's irritating.

My gut instinct is he is not experienced enough to eliminate any reciever at the line based on the defensive algnment, so he is taking too long to read and deliver the ball. It may be that he needs a good Vet (ala Gannon) to teach him to look for defensive tendancies on film. Learning to read a defense on the field looks ugly.

I see other first and second year QBs that look like they are developing faster than Walt. It might just be that those coaches have a better handle on what their QB can do than we do. Who knows.

Kind of a rant. Sorry. It's an entertaining question to me.

These are just my opinions, though, Jimi. I would kill for some coaches tape.

[Jimi18]

Playing behind this line has led Walt to develop some bad habits. Look at how often he is throwing the checkdown. (Because he is getting killed.) He is dropping his throwing shoulder to protect the ball (cause he is getting killed.) His mechanics (feet shoulders) are going backwards, IMO.

I don't know. My gut instinct is that we have decided QB development is just too much work. Rather than try to repair/develop Walt, we are just going to move along. It's irritating.

My gut instinct is he is not experienced enough to eliminate any reciever at the line based on the defensive algnment, so he is taking too long to read and deliver the ball. It may be that he needs a good Vet (ala Gannon) to teach him to look for defensive tendancies on film. Learning to read a defense on the field looks ugly.

I see other first and second year QBs that look like they are developing faster than Walt. It might just be that those coaches have a better handle on what their QB can do than we do. Who knows.

Kind of a rant. Sorry. It's an entertaining question to me.

These are just my opinions, though, Jimi. I would kill for some coaches tape.

i read earlier that he had some injury with his shoulder in 2002, i wonder if that has anything to do with it..
man i would hate that he could develope bad habits from a bad line...
i did notice the check downs, but he may have been told to, cause even gannon stated when he did the game, that Walter needs to check down alot more?
now maybe he is over checking?

i honestly believe that it is his coaching that is giving him fits, but i never seen him as much in college, only going by what Al saw in him, and the choice draft we got for him, hoping he would develope.
but if we run the run & gun.
what QB would be most likely fit in this system?

[Raider Ran]

Walter seems to make poor decisions in his progressions. Does not know how to read defenses. Makes bad throws trying to make things happen(which is not a bad thing). He does not protect the ball and contrary to statements is not very aware in the pocket. Alot of this is from the bad O Line play which is probably hindering his growth. I just am not willing to hand him the ball for the future. He may turn into a great QB but he needs alot of work.

[AlbotBrown81]

gannon could read defenses, audible, call different protection schemes and make things happen with his feet. Walter can do some of these things if he had a better playbook with more options as he stated before he was benched.

[Jimi18]

Walter seems to make poor decisions in his progressions. Does not know how to read defenses. Makes bad throws trying to make things happen(which is not a bad thing). He does not protect the ball and contrary to statements is not very aware in the pocket. Alot of this is from the bad O Line play which is probably hindering his growth. I just am not willing to hand him the ball for the future. He may turn into a great QB but he needs alot of work.

I get frustrated because his ball control. hell he can spin it alright in my sig.

I hope we can keep him as a #2 and get a vet to start, as he can grow, and play when the line grows.

Honestly, if we end up getting rid of Walter, then we need to start off with the #1 QB in the draft, but if we keep walter, then we need to sign a older vet, to compete for a season or two..

now what if we decide to keep brooks?

[Jimi18]

gannon could read defenses, audible, call different protection schemes and make things happen with his feet. Walter can do some of these things if he had a better playbook with more options as he stated before he was benched.

thats another thing....

Our playbook!!

If it is Als playbook, it is the run & gun anyway...
so if we continue to use Als playbook, then what difference does it make who is OC.. just the termonaolgy?

[Raider Ran]

I get frustrated because his ball control. hell he can spin it alright in my sig.

I hope we can keep him as a #2 and get a vet to start, as he can grow, and play when the line grows.

Honestly, if we end up getting rid of Walter, then we need to start off with the #1 QB in the draft, but if we keep walter, then we need to sign a older vet, to compete for a season or two..

now what if we decide to keep brooks?

I am not sure that we don't keep Walter even if we draft a QB. Brooks probably should be gone but I don't make those decisions. I do think we can use a Vet QB even if the above scenerio plays out.

[JFF]

Walter seems to make poor decisions in his progressions. Does not know how to read defenses. Makes bad throws trying to make things happen(which is not a bad thing). He does not protect the ball and contrary to statements is not very aware in the pocket. Alot of this is from the bad O Line play which is probably hindering his growth. I just am not willing to hand him the ball for the future. He may turn into a great QB but he needs alot of work.

Yeah, and it seems like if we were interseted in doing this work, the time would be now, eh? Like I said, I think we might be out of the development biz. Too bad. Sure would like a home grown product. I would rather win with my guy than a bit player, but wnning is wining, and winning would be good.

I think the speed of modern DBs has eliminated a lot of what made the old R&G offense work. Not sure it can work with all the track stars playing CB to day.

The one thing we seem to be able to do well is quick slants and crossing routes, to Curry, for one. Porter would be good at this, too, if he were not ruined. I would sure like to see us get back into a more intermediate offensive scheme, cause I think it might fit our horses better. Plus, there are some good QBs for that kind of scheme that will be available in the off season. (Schaub, Huard, maybe McKown, since Kitna has been named starter in Detroit for next year.)

[JFF]

I get frustrated because his ball control. hell he can spin it alright in my sig.

I hope we can keep him as a #2 and get a vet to start, as he can grow, and play when the line grows.

Honestly, if we end up getting rid of Walter, then we need to start off with the #1 QB in the draft, but if we keep walter, then we need to sign a older vet, to compete for a season or two..

now what if we decide to keep brooks?

Heard pat kerwin say today, Oakland needs to make some tough decisions based on production rather than the finances. I assume that would usher Brooks out. But, alameda seems to be the twilight zone, so who knows?

I would definitly bring in a vet. The right vet. Damned if I might not resign Tui if we had a different system.

Normally, I would agree with you on drafting the #1 QB on the board, but who would develop him? A lot of that will be decided by who the OC and the HC are next year. I don't see the point in signing another developmental project with this staff.

[Jimi18]

.

Normally, I would agree with you on drafting the #1 QB on the board, but who would develop him? A lot of that will be decided by who the OC and the HC are next year. I don't see the point in signing another developmental project with this staff.

i do not agree with me either... I just was saying if we cut walter and brooks and Tui, then our most likey choice is getting the high draft QB, and then another vet to compete to start.. (which to me is just not what we do)

Tui. wants to have the chance to compete, and i truely believe he deserves it, but this system.. nope, your right...

he would be worth keeping in my book, he has always been a coaches player, in fact he would do good in Tampa, Brooks?? not too sure, but for some reason i can see us keeping him just cause.. but i hope not..
Walter.. well he was Als future, under Norv.now it depends on who and what system we use to keep him?