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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2005, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JonRaider
The problem is, defenses today are set up to stop the west coast offense pretty effectively!
New England's offense is pretty conservative. Nobody stopped them... or at least slowed them down enough.

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I still contend that if we had more of a down field passing attack in the Super Bowl, instead of dink and dunk, the outcome of that game may have been different.
Your right. The final score would have been Tampa Bay Buccaneers 30, Tennessee Titans 20.

We lost that Super Bowl for one reason only, our coach was on the wrong sideline. The best we can do is blame Chucky for being a traitor. That offense, designed by Jon Gruden, and engineered by our 3rd best quarterback in franchise history, is what got us there. That game was over before it started. We got psyched out, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by JonRaider
I'm glad were going back to the long ball!
It's all good if we run the football. Remember, the Colts haven't won ****. The conservative offense is still what wins the Super Bowl. Any game where we dominate the time of posession and rush for 100 + is a game we'll win.


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Old 08-10-2005, 01:07 AM
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The problem with that though, Gen, is that the Whiners won 4 Super Bowls in that era, where as the Giants won 2.

True, but the Whiners lost twice in either divisonal or championship game to the giants. NY use to frustrate the hell out of Whiners. They didn't run into NY every year, though.
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Old 08-10-2005, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Gen_Man
True, but the Whiners lost twice in either divisonal or championship game to the giants. NY use to frustrate the hell out of Whiners. They didn't run into NY every year, though.
That GIANTS defense was awesome to watch.
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Old 08-13-2005, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gen_Man
True, but the Whiners lost twice in either divisonal or championship game to the giants. NY use to frustrate the hell out of Whiners. They didn't run into NY every year, though.
That is an excellent point.

I would also like to point out that the niners had a very highly ranked defence to compliment the WCO in those years whereas the Giants were average on offence.

So many fans forget or never knew that San Fran had the #1 and #2 ranked defences during a couple of their SB years. Yet Montana and crew got most of the credit.
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:38 AM
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very nice write up
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:26 PM
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my interpretation.....it sucks!
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:16 AM
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I think what might be misunderstood is the distinction between the west coast offense and other conservative offenses.

The teams that win the Super Bowls, at least every year in recent memory, still tend to run conservative offenses. I'm willing to give my benefit of the doubt to the '99 Rams, but even that team was pretty effecient about taking what the defense gave them. And remember how that game ended; Tennessee ran out of time! That's clock management. Vermeil held on to the football just a few seconds long enough from putting the game into the hands of his questionable defense. And we're talking literally seconds.

****, the last team to really win the Super Bowl with an air attack MAY HAVE BEEN US! But we dinked the ball around to Marcus Allen most of the game to set up the couple of deep passes that Plunk completed; One of them a beauty to Branch in the second quarter. I know you old schoolers remember that.

I dont' care if we use the west coast offense or not. Running the ball would be good enough for me. Either way, I would like to see us use an offense that's effecient and controlls the time of posession, rather it's a west coast or a running attack. A 20 year history of this league tells me that it's required to win the Lombardi trophy.


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Old 01-28-2006, 06:24 PM
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When I first saw this 'Football 101' forum the first question I was going to ask was 'What is a West Coast Offence?', this was something I didn't have a clue about but thanks for clearing it up guys!
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen_Man
WEST COAST OFFENSE

The West Coast Offense: My interpretation.

The West Coast Offense design goes against all traditional methods of the past. But to know the West Coast Offense is to know the history of it. Though Bill Walsh was instrumental in developing how the offense is used today, it was Sid Gillman who was responsible for starting it. Basically Walsh is the Master of the system, but Gillman is the Father of it. Not many people know this unless you really study the game and the history of how different systems have evolved. When you understand the history of the offense you can understand what the system is about.

Sid Gillman was the legendary coach who felt that passing the football was OK in any situation. His work in X's and O's as well as his teaching methods are legendary, and he has been described as the "Father of the Modern Passing Game." Everything you see on TV or at a local high school in regards to the passing game is linked to his early work. He led the Rams to championship seasons with his new whiz passing schemes with Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch and the AFL San Diego Chargers with Lance Alworth and John Hadl. One day in 1966 a young Oakland Raider assistant coach was leaving his hotel for a game against the San Diego Chargers, but he stopped to look at something on his TV. It was Sid's TV show, on the show was Sid, describing in monotonous detail the aspects of the post pattern. He would show the post pattern from different players and different angles, write it down on a black board and described the steps and different ways to step when doing the post pattern. Well that assistant was Bill Walsh, and from that point he discovered the brilliance of this "Man". Walsh learned his system through former Gillman assistant Al Davis, the rest is history. Walsh went to Cincinnati and learned organizational skills under Paul Brown (who was Sid's coach for a while) and developed a system for an average armed Quarterback named Virgil Carter. With Virgil Carter he utilized short passes off of play action on first down, a running play on 2nd down and a ball controlled pass on third. The basic premise was to move the chains with short high percentage passes and hold onto the ball so their defense stayed off the field. This allowed for low manageable scores to which the Cincinnati Bengals could at least hang with their opponents. Now you can say why didn't they run the ball, but an expansion team is not going to go out and shove the ball down anyone's throat. Because of this offense it kept the Bengals competitive.

After being left out of the Cincinnati head coaching job after Paul Brown retired, Walsh then left for San Diego and worked under passing Guru Don Coryell and the Air Coryell offense. Coach Coryell was notorious for his team’s tendency to throw the ball more then he ran it. Walsh worked with Dan Fouts just like Ken Anderson in Cincinnati and developed them into top notch QB's. He then took a head coaching job at Stanford and help lead them to a bowl game victory over Georgia with Wide Receiver James Lofton. After that he went to San Francisco and led the 49ers to 3 Superbowls and mentored dozens of coaches and players.



So what differentiates a regular offense from the West Coast Offense?

The answers are abstract but certain characteristics can help differentiate.

-The use of all 5 receivers generally

-A vertical as well as Horizontal stretch on the defense

-A tendency to throw the ball to the Tight Ends and Running Backs equally to the Wide Receivers then other offenses.

-Passing the ball in any situation, no matter what is going on

-Using the short pass to set up the deep pass instead of the run

-Passing game sets up the run

-Attention to detail and overall teaching plan given to the players from the beginning of training camp, week to week and all the way to the championship game.

There are other aspects but sometimes they can be used to describe characteristics of other offenses on occasion. Patterns dictated by the coverage is a premise of the Run 'n Shoot, but it's used by the WCO as well. But to understand the offense is to understand the strategy behind it.

The short passes that are utilized do 2 things, open up the opportunity for the deep pass and the running game. Most traditional offenses like to use the running game to set up the pass, not with this offense. The short passes put heavy pressure on the Defensive backs and Linebackers because they now have to cover more then just one area or try and stop more then one aspect.

Eventually the deep pass will open up and create the big play.

Now when you read the newspapers, you will see people say that today's coaches modify the offense such as the Broncos. Nothing could be any further from the truth. The Broncos use the same plays that the West Coast offense uses or is designed to use, it's just that they tend to run the ball more because of the talent that this team has. They still use 5 receivers on passing plays and the vertical and horizontal stretch, it's just that the play calling is a little different and they run the ball a little more then normal.

But it's still the West Coast Offense.

You can run the West Coast offense out of the T formation, but it just isn't as practical.

The thing with the WCO is that it can be used by anyone and help them be successful, but it has better matches with certain personnel then others. Though the Dallas Cowboys could have success with the WCO, the matchup would probably be less to be desired. West Coast Offenses tend to do better with smaller quicker offensive lineman because of the tendency to throw the ball. But it's never hard to find small lineman. When you have passing plays that involve 5 receivers, you better have 5 quick lineman. Second, you need a QB that can at least move in case everyone is covered and he has to improvise. Not like Kordel Stewart but at least better then Dan Marino. That or he better have a quick release. But this offense is Quarterback friendly and with West Coast Offense that BYU uses it can help lots of young QB's. Third, the QB must be disciplined and make proper reads in order to make the right decisions. Randal Cunningham failed in Philadelphia when the West Coast Offense was implemented because he would not be patient and wait for the deep receiver to get open. He would see nothing open initially and run, he would miss the opportunity to wait one split second for a deep receiver to get open. Eventually he wrote himself out of Philly. Steve Young finally embraced this concept and got himself a Superbowl ring because of it. So for some people it is better then others.

Source: http://www.denvertitans.com/west_coast.htm
Great post man, very informative. It's funny that you mentioned Randall Cunningham in your post because as soon as i saw what you said about him i thought about Mike Vick. Mike Vick isn't doing too well in the West Coast offense right now because he dosen't makes good reads, he dosen't have enough receiving talent, and if the tight end isn't open than he just runs with the ball.
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