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Thread: Risers and Fallers: 2013 NFL Draft

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderAg View Post
    Then again, Bruce Irvin (from Atlanta) went to Seattle...Carroll and Co. don't seem to have a problem getting that young man acclimated to the Northwest. Maybe it's just coaching and mentoring...or maybe we just picked two lazy thugs named Russell and McClain.

    So, if I look at my Top 3 ... DE Bjoern Werner, ILB Manti Te'o and OT Luke Joeckel.

    Werner is essentially an international. Being on the East Coast means easier trips to Deutschland, which he'll be making plenty more of with his paydays to come. I don't think Oakland or the Int'l vibe of the Bay Area will be all that much of an issue for him. I think he'd be stoked to be in a new, energetic place...he could thrive here.

    Te'o. Native Hawai'ian, idolized USC, went to Notre Dame, a return to the West would be fine I think.

    Joeckel is a Texan. They live football down there, so I don't think it would really matter. Plus, he's an offensive linemen...as a former OL myself, it's all about doing your job and being selfless.

    The guys you have to worry about are the playmakers or the guys who basically haven't left home...you look at McClain, who grew up in Decatur then played at Tuscaloosa...not much of a switch. Russell grew up in Mobile then made the switch over to Baton Rouge. Seems like a culture shock for those guys. A lot of SEC players are like that, they live, breathe, eat, drink, s*** football in the South from the time they're kids to the time they get drafted, then go off to play in the big city somewhere. It's a pretty big switch, so delving into a prospects' past for any international travel, areas of study, family ties elsewhere etc. etc. is important. It's about a Draft pick thriving mentally and spiritually as well as physically on the field.
    I think this is a very valid point. This comes down to a young mans mental toughness and willingness/ability to adapt. The problem here is that there is really no way to prove that someone failed because of such a drastic change of scenery, I mean unless he just comes right out and says that he didn't like being away from home. And for every story of failure in this type of culture shock situation there is a success story under the same circumstances. So catching this before you draft a player is almost impossible, and limiting your draft field due to this almost seems like you would just be handicapping yourself. If a player came into the predraft interview and said stuff like how he sees his parents every week, and his moms cooking is his favorite thing in the world or something like that, then maybe I would slide him down a notch or two on the draft board. But I can't see not targeting a guy because you think he might get home sick. This is just one of 432,235,984 variables that goes into evaluating a player pre draft.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedSnB View Post
    This is just one of 432,235,984 variables that goes into evaluating a player pre draft.
    I got the number to 432,235,985. I think you forgot the one about tying up the right shoe first. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderAg View Post
    I've actually rethought this statement. Jones was originally recruited by Pete Carroll, a tremendous defensive coach who would've made Jones a star at USC. The sanctions came down, Carroll left for Seattle and then Lame Kitten came in to be HC. I probably would've been looking elsewhere too. Landed at UGA, near home, wasn't going to be overshadowed like some guys get at LSU or Alabama who are good from corner to corner on defense.
    actually, that was just a small part in the reason why Jones left.

    it was a couple of things. Carroll recruited Jones with the thought that he'd be the next big name at LB. Carroll also ran a hybrid defense sometimes playing 3-4 like the way Clay Matthews would line up as a DE/LB. when Carroll left, it came with the subsequent change in defensive scheme where his dad Monte wanted LBs who were smaller and faster that were better fits to play Cover 2. that meant Jones was no longer in their plans, on top of the fact that the team's medical staff wouldn't clear him to play after he had a neck injury his freshman year. they said he had spinal stenosis(?) and he'd be out indefinitely. that's when he asked for his release to transfer. myself and some of my SC buddies never bought the medical excuse because we've seen him play in the spring game and IMO he was better than the two guys slotted to start at OLB (Malcolm Smith/Michael Morgan). both guys were under 230lbs. i think it was just Lane being Lame, and not knowing how to handle that situation....btw, there's a huge USC contingent that does not like Kiffin and the way he runs that program.

    but going back to your other point Ag, about coaching and mentorship, Carroll is lightyears ahead of that than Kiffin. Carroll is a great fit for what they're doing in Seattle because he's still got the heart of a college coach. he wants to nurture, teach and be hands on with his guys, just the way a lot of successful college coaches do. his big coaching mantra is to always compete. no position was safe because if you're good, you're gonna play. there were situations at SC where 5 star guys never saw the field because they didn't compete and expected to be handed the job. Desean Jackson said that the main reason he went to Cal over USC was because Tedford guaranteed that Jackson would start as a freshman. Carroll told him he wasn't guaranteed anything but believed in his talent. Jackson chose Cal.

    also to touch on both Jamarcus and Rolando versus a guy like Bruce Irvin....on the surface, Irvin is the bigger risk out of college. the guy was a high school drop out, had some run ins with the law, but is a supremely talented football player. McClain and Russell both won all kinds of awards on successful teams in the SEC. but here's my thing....both of our guys never looked like guys who put in work during the offseason. you could tell just based off their body types....both guys were soft. i don't know about anyone else, but i believe that a good work ethic permeates in every facet of a person's life. if i'm a good football player who puts in endless hours watching tape, i'm also that guy who's working out at the crack of dawn and putting in work in the gym. Bruce Irvin looks like a guy who puts in work off the football field. he's exceeded expectations even after he got drafted. pairing him with a coach like Carroll has done wonders. i think he would have developed similarly irregardless of where he was drafted. i never got that from Rolando or Jamarcus while they were in college and even more so after they became millionaires. its no coincidence that both of guys came in less than ideal shape for the Combine.

    another example, going back to USC: between Rey Maualuga, Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews, Maualuga was the most heralded in college. he was the heart of that defense. Cushing was probably the most physically imposing, whether it was allegedly with the help of roids. Clay, however was neither. that guy made himself into a 1st round pick, and it would be fair to say that he's now the best of the three. i think Matthews was and still is hungrier than the other two guys. his success was inevitable because he took his talent and made it better every year.

    so i guess it is very much prospect-dependent. its not so much about keeping them west because they grew up in AZ that will translate into success in the NFL. if a player needs discipline and structure to get the most out of them, then they need to be around either All-Pros (ie. Baltimore/New England) or they need to be around familiarity and family for that. but IMO the common underlying determinate is how hungry they are, and how they've shown that during their time in college and during the physical evaluation part of the draft process.
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    Tony Pauline from SI's Risers and Fallers

    SI's Tony Pauline's latest:


    Throughout the season we've chronicled the players who have helped and hurt their draft stock most in a given week. Below, we list the draft winners and losers from the entire season's body of work. (* denotes underclassmen)

    Risers

    Geno Smith, QB, West Virginia: Smith got off to a quick start at the beginning of the season, and was tough to stop all year long. His improvement on the field was obvious, as each week he continually made proper decisions in the pocket and displayed pinpoint accuracy with his throws. Smith now grades as the best quarterback in the draft and will be a top-15 choice in April.

    Giovani Bernard, RB, North Carolina*: Bernard set himself apart from the rest of the position this season in a draft void of talent at running back. He was dominant in all areas of the game and beat opponents as a ball carrier, pass catcher and return specialist. If he checks out medically, Bernard will be the first back selected next April.

    Zach Ertz, TE, Stanford*: Twelve months ago Ertz struggled to see the field, listed behind Coby Fleener on Stanford's depth chart. He grabbed hold of the starting job this year, then watched his draft stock take off. Ertz is a complete tight end with the ability to create mismatches in the secondary as a pass catcher or control opponents on the line of scrimmage as a blocker. He's an NFL-ready prospect with a first-round grade.

    Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor: With the departure of Kendall Wright and Robert Griffin, the focus of Baylor's offense shifted to Williams this season. He answered the call. He's a reliable underneath pass catcher with sneaky speed and the ability to beat defenders deep. Williams' play this season has pushed him into the second round of the draft.

    Luke Joeckel, T, Texas A&M*: Joeckel and his Aggie teammates found themselves playing in a new conference, for a new coach and protecting a new quarterback in 2012. The change was seamless for Joeckel, who now grades as the draft's premier pass-blocking tackle. He faced off against some of the nation's best pass rushers and defensive coaches each week, yet consistently shut down opponents. Joeckel ranks as a top-10 pick if he enters the draft.

    Eric Fisher, T, Central Michigan: Fisher entered the season with late-round grades, but played far beyond the expectations of NFL scouts in 2012. He's a tremendous pass blocker with exceptional agility and movement skills. Fisher improved every aspect of his game and could slide into the late part of the first round.

    Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU: Ansah was not on the scouting radar when the season began, but he's now the talk of the scouting community. The former track athlete from Ghana needed assistance on how to properly put on his football equipment two years ago, but he now grades out as a potential first-round pick based on his play in 2012.

    Cornellius Carradine, DE, Florida State: Carradine had not started a game prior to the 2012 season, then was forced into the lineup after an injury to Brandon Jenkins. From the get go he looked like a seasoned veteran. Carradine was a forceful pass rusher who made a lot of plays behind the line of scrimmage and stopped the run with regularity. A late season ACL injury will knock Carradine out of the top 35 picks, but he improved his draft stock almost three full rounds as a senior.

    Damontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M*: The Aggies produced the second pick of the 2011 draft in linebacker Von Miller, and Moore may not be far behind next April. The junior turned in game-impacting plays every week this season and showed tremendous development on the field. He presently grades as the top 3-4 linebacker prospect in the nation.

    Will Davis, CB, Utah State: Davis, who came to Utah State via De Anza College, watched his game take off in 2012. Opposing quarterbacks rarely challenged him as he shut down opponents all season. He possesses the size and skill to be a starter at the next level, and scouts have stamped Davis as a top-45 pick in the upcoming draft.


    Sliders

    Matt Barkley, QB, USC: Barkley returned for his senior season with expectations of a national title run and Heisman Trophy candidacy. He moves toward April with a declining draft grade and a shoulder injury. Barkley lost his rhythm at times during the season, made questionable decisions in the pocket and struggled with his once dependable accuracy. Once considered to be in the conversation as the first pick of the 2013 draft, Barkley is likely to fall into the bottom half of round one.

    Logan Thomas, QB, Virginia Tech: Thomas entered the year justifiably ranked as one of the top quarterback prospects in the nation, but his play was woeful at times throughout the season. His poor defensive reads resulted in errant passes and a lot of interceptions (14). Considered a possible top-15 pick in August, Thomas now grades as a third-round choice.

    Knile Davis, RB, Arkansas*: Davis was highly rated coming into his sophomore season of 2011, but an ankle injury kept him on the sidelines the entire campaign. He returned to the field this year, but his entire game struggled and he looked a fraction of his former self.

    Marquess Wilson, WR, Washington State: Wilson ranked as one of the better receivers from the junior class at the beginning of the season but lost his starting job midway through the year. Conflicts with the coaching staff ended with his departure from the Washington State program, and red flags have been raised in the scouting community.

    Marcus Davis, WR, Virginia Tech: Scouts considered Davis the top receiver prospect from the senior class when the season began. He possesses mouth watering size (6-foot-3, 225 pounds) and speed (4.45-second 40) for the next level. He flashed skill, but has yet to pull together a complete game and showed a lot inconsistency on the field.

    Kawann Short, DT, Purdue: The Purdue senior received first-round grades moving toward the 2012 draft, but decided to return for a final campaign on the college field. His play was inconsistent throughout the 2012 season, and scouts feel Short did not play to his potential or live up to expectations.

    William Gholston, DE, Michigan State*: Gholston was graded as a first-round prospect entering the season with good reason. He flashed dominance as a sophomore and the ability to overwhelm opponents. Gholston showed little improvement this year, and his inconsistent motor and pedestrian total of 3.5 sacks has raised red flags.

    Doug Rippy, LB, Colorado: When healthy and at the top of his game Rippy is a complete linebacker and three-down defender. His junior season was cut short after seven games due to a knee injury. He was slow to return this year, playing in just nine games and looking a fraction of his former self. He was graded as a third-round choice prior to the season, but Rippy could go unselected due to medical red-flags.

    Terry Hawthorne, CB, Illinois: Hawthorne struggled with injury and poor play this season. He was a shutdown cornerback opponents purposely threw away from in 2011, but as a senior Hawthorne looked no better than a late-round cornerback at times.

    Robert Lester, S, Alabama: After the 2010 season scouts had a higher opinion of Lester than former teammate Mark Barron, the seventh pick of last April's draft. Lester's play has steadily regressed the past two seasons. He's been slow reacting on the field and has not made many game-impacting plays.


    2013 NFL Draft: Risers, sliders from the 2012 college football season - NFL - Tony Pauline - SI.com

  6. #306
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    Was afraid Damontre Moore might not declare, but over the last couple of hours there are plenty of people saying he is likely to head to the draft. Hope these people are right. Would be a better pick than Werner or Ansah for our pass rushing needs. So versatile and so dangerous.

    Joe Garcia ‏@Joe_Garcia49
    Texas A&M DE/OLB Damontre Moore will probably enter to the 2013 #NFLDraft

    Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
    Updated News & Notes: Sources say Damontre Moore/Tex A&M "likely gone" & Luke Joeckel "undecided"...more on UT Vols: Draft Insider - The Premier Source for NFL Draft Information

    Working on my Prospect Profile now - this is like an early Christmas!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DustInTheWind View Post
    Was afraid Damontre Moore might not declare, but over the last couple of hours there are plenty of people saying he is likely to head to the draft. Hope these people are right. Would be a better pick than Werner or Ansah for our pass rushing needs. So versatile and so dangerous.

    Joe Garcia ‏@Joe_Garcia49
    Texas A&M DE/OLB Damontre Moore will probably enter to the 2013 #NFLDraft

    Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
    Updated News & Notes: Sources say Damontre Moore/Tex A&M "likely gone" & Luke Joeckel "undecided"...more on UT Vols: Draft Insider - The Premier Source for NFL Draft Information

    Working on my Prospect Profile now - this is like an early Christmas!
    Just from going through your Mock this morning...Moore is barely 20 years old...he still has 266 days until his 21st birthday. That is a lot of money to throw at a talented kid, I hope he's worth it if Oakland picks him. Sounds like his off the field stuff was pretty minimal.

    Texas A&M linebacker Moore arrested for marijuana possession - College Football News | FOX Sports on MSN

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderAg View Post
    Just from going through your Mock this morning...Moore is barely 20 years old...he still has 266 days until his 21st birthday. That is a lot of money to throw at a talented kid, I hope he's worth it if Oakland picks him. Sounds like his off the field stuff was pretty minimal.

    Texas A&M linebacker Moore arrested for marijuana possession - College Football News | FOX Sports on MSN
    He's young and will have to mature some more, but has shown he is growing up. There was a YouTube clip talking about him having to fill the shoes of Von Miller going to the NFL and how he was only ready because of the support he had received from Von and his family in helping him get through his mistakes and ready himself for the future. Coaches were on there talking about his maturation process and how impressed they'd been with him and the effort he always gave on the field.

    No guarantees Reggie would pull the trigger on him and not a lock he declares just yet either. I just get the same feeling watching him that I do with Joeckel...they are doing an amazing job and making it look effortless. Like everyone around them is moving slow motion and that they could be making a sandwich or watching TV at the same time as doing their job. And for my comparisons in my prospect profile, I do see a lot of Demarcus Ware in the kid and think he could be something special if he continues growing up and giving his game 110% every day.

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    OLB C.J. Mosley Returning to Tuscaloosa for Senior Season

    Probably a Day 1 pick, but decides to return.

    Alabama's Mosley to return for senior season - NCAA - SI.com


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    Barkley Under Pressure This Draft Season

    Matt Barkley - USC Trojans - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

    Scouts Inc.'s Todd McShay stated that USC senior QB Matt Barkley's "inability to make things happen on pressure drops was exposed."

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    Van Noy Dominates vs. Aztecs

    Looks like OLB Kyle Van Noy is no longer a modest secret. He may now be the best prospect coming off the BYU roster ahead of Ansah. Certainly 2nd Round consideration now.

    Kyle Van Noy - Brigham Young Cougars - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com


    BYU junior OLB Kyle Van Noy dominated San Diego State Thursday night, registering 3.5 tackles for loss, including 1.5 sacks, an interception for a touchdown, a forced fumble for a touchdown, and a blocked kick.
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    Hoffman Comes Up Big For Cougars

    Steady, strongly built, and a huge target, Cody Hoffman separated himself as a top possession receiver during BYU's 2nd Half romp of San Diego State.

    Cody Hoffman - Brigham Young Cougars - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com


    BYU junior WR Cody Hoffman caught 10 passes for 114 yards against San Diego State Thursday night.

    Hoffman, a junior prospect considering a jump to the NFL, showed off his smooth style downfield to create separation against the Aztecs. He won't flash in workouts, but Hoffman is long and utilizes solid routes with good body control to make an impact in the passing game.
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    Game Manager Nassib Seems Ready for NFL

    Would fit well for a run first type offense...maybe 15-25 throws a game.

    Ryan Nassib - Syracuse Orange - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com


    One NFL scout told CBS Sports' Rob Rang that Syracuse senior QB Ryan Nassib "just seems like he's wired right for the position.

    "The scout thinks that is uncommon among this year's group of quarterbacks. He adds that Nassib is "just tall enough and has a rocket for an arm" while remaining "a little rough around the edges." A second day selection could absolutely be in Nassib's future.

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    P Brad Wing Suspended for LSU Bowl Game

    Multiple failed drug tests. Apparently, he's all but out of the program...

    Brad Wing - LSU Tigers - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

    LSU punter Brad Wing suspended for Chick-fil-A Bowl


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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderAg View Post
    Would fit well for a run first type offense...maybe 15-25 throws a game.

    Ryan Nassib - Syracuse Orange - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com




    i think given some time to develop, Nassib has the tools to become an above average QB in the NFL. his quick release and his scrambling ability in the pocket reminds me closely of Cowboy QB Tony Romo.

    fan of Romo or not, Romo is still a top 10 starter in the NFL. IMO Nassib has that type of game.

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