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Thread: Can Russell and McFadden turn the Raiders around?

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Never said he still had it or that he was perfect... I'll be the first one to say that Al Davis has made some of the most bonehead coaching hires in pro sports, but I'll also be the first one to suggest that he's made some of the most ingenious hires as well... Mike White, Joe Bugle, and Norv Turner were bonehead decisions if you ask me... I can understand why he gave Art another chance, but I think he made a HUGE mistake in giving Art that much power... Same can be said about the Callahan hire... I'll never agree with the White, Bugle, and Turner hires...

    However, his decision to not only find but hire guys like Gruden and Kiffin are genius in my opinion... Both of these guys (like them or not) will become staples in the NFL as head coaches and will share the lineage of being "discovered" by Al Davis... Gruden was already on the NFL landscape, but nobody was at the point of giving him a shot... and Kiffin was basically an unknown who wasnt on ANYONES radar... Add John Madden, Tom Flores, and Shanarat to the list as well...
    I would be in agreement that he's made some bonehead moves and also some very smart moves... I'm just not convinced Davis can get things back together, part of the reason I feel that way is the older a person gets the more stubborn he/she becomes and not only doesn't want to listen to suggestions they almost refuse to listen. I will be the first to say I hope the old man proves me wrong, but I wouldn't be holding my breath!
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Name ONE head coach that was fired by Al "unjustly"....
    Tom Flores, Mike Shannahan, Mike White (ok debateable), Art Shell...technically you can actually argue this one as he was never a good coach and was only following orders..but still, John Gruden was traded....

    Before you challenge the Raider Fans to sell out the Colisseum or say the locals don't support the team Please Read Raider187's extremely informative post: http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/oakl...ance-woes.html

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    They can and will but don't expect miracles this season

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjayboogie View Post
    Tom Flores, Mike Shannahan, Mike White (ok debateable), Art Shell...technically you can actually argue this one as he was never a good coach and was only following orders..but still, John Gruden was traded....
    Everybody you listed deserved to be fired... even Flores, who flamed out the final four years with us...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    I would be in agreement that he's made some bonehead moves and also some very smart moves... I'm just not convinced Davis can get things back together, part of the reason I feel that way is the older a person gets the more stubborn he/she becomes and not only doesn't want to listen to suggestions they almost refuse to listen. I will be the first to say I hope the old man proves me wrong, but I wouldn't be holding my breath!
    The fact that he went out and (over)spent like he did, is a confirmation that he needed to add talent to the roster and just as much an admission that he may have been in error on some of his personnel decisions....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Name ONE head coach that was fired by Al "unjustly"....


    Hopefully, at the end of the year, no one will answer your question by mentioning Kiffin.
    "Frisky the Cat" is the official cat of the Oakland Raiders!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    They are the building blocks but a lot more pieces of the puzzle have to be added in order to make it work..
    Yes they are building blocks......the premise of the question pissed me off right away...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Everybody you listed deserved to be fired... even Flores, who flamed out the final four years with us...
    I agree about Flores...........He's not a very good coach........maybe in 81 he was good........it was the teams talent that did it.....Tom was a horrible coach in Seattle.........

    The Iconoclastic Raider in T-town

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    The fact that he went out and (over)spent like he did, is a confirmation that he needed to add talent to the roster and just as much an admission that he may have been in error on some of his personnel decisions....
    I would agree that he saw the need to add talent, but as you suggest he over paid for what he got. To date I think the only FA signing that was truly a smart move was Wilson. Walker is a mess, Carter is injured, Harris is a huge question mark and Kelly might take the next step to being a solid player, the jury is out.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by HITMAN View Post
    I would agree that he saw the need to add talent, but as you suggest he over paid for what he got. To date I think the only FA signing that was truly a smart move was Wilson. Walker is a mess, Carter is injured, Harris is a huge question mark and Kelly might take the next step to being a solid player, the jury is out.
    Well first off, he had to overspend... we're 19-61 over the past five seasons!! I dont know about you, but I'm glad to have an owner that is at least willing to indirectly eat crow and cough up the dough to put a more competitive and talented product on the field... Talk about the rift between he and Kiffin all you want, but one thing Kiffin cant say is that Al Davis didnt provide him any playmakers to work/build with...

    In regards to our signings I break it down like this:

    Wilson: Great pickup... local kid who always wanted to be a Raider... the physical strong safety we've lacked for years... allows Huff to move to a better suited free safety position... sound tackler who still has the speed and athleticism to excel in coverage... a winner to boot....

    Hall: Great trade.... Wasnt a huge need for us per se, but at only 24 years old and with two pro bowls in his pocket it was a steal imo for a second rounder who for all we know could have been a bust... with Hall on board it allows us to move eight men up in the box with more frequency, gives Rob Ryan the confidence to send more blitz packages, and (along with Wilson) adds a swagger and nastiness to our secondary... Hall is also a natural man to man corner which fits our system perfectly... A great tackler who combined with Nnamdi (and Howard and Morrison underneath) gives opposing qb's fits in the passing game... qb's have to hold the ball a half second (minimum) longer now, which could rise our sack totals...

    Walker: TBD... I was never a Javon Walker fan nor was I sold on this pick up... I hope he proves me wrong, but I dont think he'll ever live up to the contract that we gave him (even though its loaded with provisions that soften the blow of our investment if he bottoms out)... He showed glimpses of what he can do in the Arizona game, but we need more consistency... Personally, in terms of the WR position, I would have went after DJ Hackett and Bernard Berrian for half the money... but thats just me...

    Harris: I trust Tom Cable... period... I think Kwame has all the physical attributes to succeed in a zone blocking system... he's a great run blocker, but struggles in pass protection... and to be honest, I'm starting to wonder if his problems as a pass blocker are more mental at this stage of his career... If we can continue to restore his confidence and make things easier for him initially, I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up suprising some people... he has the footwork and "punch" to be able to hold his own against the leagues premiere rush ends, he just need to shake off the criticism he's received in the past and get his swagger going...

    Carter: Like I said, I would have signed Hackett and Berrian... But we didnt overspend on Carter and the hard work he put in throughout the OTA's, mini-camps, etc made me warm up to his signing... He was focused and intent on building a rapport with Russell, for that he should be commended... its unfortunate how things turned out, I feel for the dude because I know he wanted to perform for us...

    Kelly: First off I'm not a hater... Secondly, I always liked Tommy Kelly and felt that he was best suited as an undertackle... I could care less how much money his contract called for... actually, I think its fair to a degree... like the Raiders I think Kelly can end up performing on the level of those who signed for similar deals, he just hasnt done it yet and thats what irks some people about the size of his deal... He's young, mean, nasty, and explosive with a quick first step and the strength to go with it... People wanted Haynesworth, but I wasnt willing to shell out that kind of dough for a player who hasnt played up to the level he did in 07 prior to that... especially with 07 being a contract year for him... when you said the name Albert Haynesworth in 06, all you thought of was him stepping on the head of a Cowboy... At least with Kelly, I know what his deal was... he's one of our own and he had the unfortunate distinction of a Hall of Fame player playing ahead of him at his natural position... I think Kelly will turn a lot of heads this season (barring injury) and eventually find himself in the pro bowl...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Well first off, he had to overspend... we're 19-61 over the past five seasons!! I dont know about you, but I'm glad to have an owner that is at least willing to indirectly eat crow and cough up the dough to put a more competitive and talented product on the field... Talk about the rift between he and Kiffin all you want, but one thing Kiffin cant say is that Al Davis didnt provide him any playmakers to work/build with...

    In regards to our signings I break it down like this:

    Wilson: Great pickup... local kid who always wanted to be a Raider... the physical strong safety we've lacked for years... allows Huff to move to a better suited free safety position... sound tackler who still has the speed and athleticism to excel in coverage... a winner to boot....

    Hall: Great trade.... Wasnt a huge need for us per se, but at only 24 years old and with two pro bowls in his pocket it was a steal imo for a second rounder who for all we know could have been a bust... with Hall on board it allows us to move eight men up in the box with more frequency, gives Rob Ryan the confidence to send more blitz packages, and (along with Wilson) adds a swagger and nastiness to our secondary... Hall is also a natural man to man corner which fits our system perfectly... A great tackler who combined with Nnamdi (and Howard and Morrison underneath) gives opposing qb's fits in the passing game... qb's have to hold the ball a half second (minimum) longer now, which could rise our sack totals...

    Walker: TBD... I was never a Javon Walker fan nor was I sold on this pick up... I hope he proves me wrong, but I dont think he'll ever live up to the contract that we gave him (even though its loaded with provisions that soften the blow of our investment if he bottoms out)... He showed glimpses of what he can do in the Arizona game, but we need more consistency... Personally, in terms of the WR position, I would have went after DJ Hackett and Bernard Berrian for half the money... but thats just me...

    Harris: I trust Tom Cable... period... I think Kwame has all the physical attributes to succeed in a zone blocking system... he's a great run blocker, but struggles in pass protection... and to be honest, I'm starting to wonder if his problems as a pass blocker are more mental at this stage of his career... If we can continue to restore his confidence and make things easier for him initially, I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up suprising some people... he has the footwork and "punch" to be able to hold his own against the leagues premiere rush ends, he just need to shake off the criticism he's received in the past and get his swagger going...

    Carter: Like I said, I would have signed Hackett and Berrian... But we didnt overspend on Carter and the hard work he put in throughout the OTA's, mini-camps, etc made me warm up to his signing... He was focused and intent on building a rapport with Russell, for that he should be commended... its unfortunate how things turned out, I feel for the dude because I know he wanted to perform for us...

    Kelly: First off I'm not a hater... Secondly, I always liked Tommy Kelly and felt that he was best suited as an undertackle... I could care less how much money his contract called for... actually, I think its fair to a degree... like the Raiders I think Kelly can end up performing on the level of those who signed for similar deals, he just hasnt done it yet and thats what irks some people about the size of his deal... He's young, mean, nasty, and explosive with a quick first step and the strength to go with it... People wanted Haynesworth, but I wasnt willing to shell out that kind of dough for a player who hasnt played up to the level he did in 07 prior to that... especially with 07 being a contract year for him... when you said the name Albert Haynesworth in 06, all you thought of was him stepping on the head of a Cowboy... At least with Kelly, I know what his deal was... he's one of our own and he had the unfortunate distinction of a Hall of Fame player playing ahead of him at his natural position... I think Kelly will turn a lot of heads this season (barring injury) and eventually find himself in the pro bowl...
    I don't see anything wrong with any of these break downs. But I have 2 points that I would like to disagree with.

    Kwame Harris

    Tom Cable is a good coach. Coaching can only do so much. Not to mention it been rumored to join Jim Mora Jr's 2009 Seattle Coaching Staff. And since I know you like links for proof (so do I) here is the link/

    Tampering _ yawn - Inside The Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of ANG Newspapers

    It is a workshop for coaches as well. Being an assistant coach in the NFL means always looking out for your next gig. Given their tenuous existence, it’s the common sense move. John Czarnecki of Foxsports.com, besides advancing the popular theory that James Lofton could soon be the head coach of the Raiders, also noted, “It’s also no secret that current Oakland assistants Greg Knapp and Tom Rathman will be on Jim Mora’s 2009 Seattle coaching staff.”

    Czarnecki neglected to mention the third man in that rumor _ offensive line coach Tom Cable.


    Not trying to sway ya mind or nothing. Just putting out what I read. Will this come to fruitation? We shall see.

    Now back to Kwame Harris. I just don't see him as a overall upgrade from Barry Sims. Barry Sims was a old stiff and Kwame Harris is a young stiff. I guess you can say its possible to teach a younger dog better tricks. Kwame Harris runs block better than Sims, Pass blocks worst than Sims, and they both make about the same amount in dumb penelties (holding, false starts, etc) As state Kwame Harris is terrible in pass protecting. He already damn near got (one time franchise QB) Alex Smith killed in SF. Now we have him protecting our franchise QB in Oakland. He can run block decent. Thats great. We are a running team, I get that. But I also get that in football you have to throw the ball the as well. And with Cornell Green at Right Tackle doesn't leave much room for comfort on play actions or roll outs. I just don't see how if you are trying to upgrade a part of a team which is critical especially with a basically rookie QB at the helm why not upgrading the offensive line with as much quality lineman as possible would not be the fore front of issues to address. But hey maybe there were no quality Left Tackles. I don't remember. But I don't think Kwame Harris is even close to being a answer. Or a stop gap. I just hope he doesn't get JaMarcus hurt out there.


    And now this.

    At least with Kelly, I know what his deal was... he's one of our own...

    HAHAHA. For real?? Well if he is one of our own, as you put it, then why did he get a blank check and Nnamdi, who has been the best and most consistent Raider on the roster the last 3 years save Shane Lechler get that good ole one year high raise per diem? Err franchise tag? If anything Nnamdi is well deservent of a big contract over Tommy Kelly. Tommy Kelly has done nothing, nothing to in his career to justify the contract he got from the Raiders. Thats not hate, thats real life facts talking.

    Nnamdi should have been taken care of first. Even before Justin Fargas re-signed. Because Nnamdi is one of our own and not only has he along with Shane Lechler been the most consistent bright spot in the times of darkness, he has handle and represented the Raiders Organization with class. And for that he got a franchise tag instead of a long term contract.

    But Tommy Kelly is one of our own...

    POKE IN RICHMOND

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADEEZ View Post
    Well first off, he had to overspend... we're 19-61 over the past five seasons!! I dont know about you, but I'm glad to have an owner that is at least willing to indirectly eat crow and cough up the dough to put a more competitive and talented product on the field... Talk about the rift between he and Kiffin all you want, but one thing Kiffin cant say is that Al Davis didnt provide him any playmakers to work/build with...

    In regards to our signings I break it down like this:

    Wilson: Great pickup... local kid who always wanted to be a Raider... the physical strong safety we've lacked for years... allows Huff to move to a better suited free safety position... sound tackler who still has the speed and athleticism to excel in coverage... a winner to boot....

    Hall: Great trade.... Wasnt a huge need for us per se, but at only 24 years old and with two pro bowls in his pocket it was a steal imo for a second rounder who for all we know could have been a bust... with Hall on board it allows us to move eight men up in the box with more frequency, gives Rob Ryan the confidence to send more blitz packages, and (along with Wilson) adds a swagger and nastiness to our secondary... Hall is also a natural man to man corner which fits our system perfectly... A great tackler who combined with Nnamdi (and Howard and Morrison underneath) gives opposing qb's fits in the passing game... qb's have to hold the ball a half second (minimum) longer now, which could rise our sack totals...

    Walker: TBD... I was never a Javon Walker fan nor was I sold on this pick up... I hope he proves me wrong, but I dont think he'll ever live up to the contract that we gave him (even though its loaded with provisions that soften the blow of our investment if he bottoms out)... He showed glimpses of what he can do in the Arizona game, but we need more consistency... Personally, in terms of the WR position, I would have went after DJ Hackett and Bernard Berrian for half the money... but thats just me...

    Harris: I trust Tom Cable... period... I think Kwame has all the physical attributes to succeed in a zone blocking system... he's a great run blocker, but struggles in pass protection... and to be honest, I'm starting to wonder if his problems as a pass blocker are more mental at this stage of his career... If we can continue to restore his confidence and make things easier for him initially, I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up suprising some people... he has the footwork and "punch" to be able to hold his own against the leagues premiere rush ends, he just need to shake off the criticism he's received in the past and get his swagger going...

    Carter: Like I said, I would have signed Hackett and Berrian... But we didnt overspend on Carter and the hard work he put in throughout the OTA's, mini-camps, etc made me warm up to his signing... He was focused and intent on building a rapport with Russell, for that he should be commended... its unfortunate how things turned out, I feel for the dude because I know he wanted to perform for us...

    Kelly: First off I'm not a hater... Secondly, I always liked Tommy Kelly and felt that he was best suited as an undertackle... I could care less how much money his contract called for... actually, I think its fair to a degree... like the Raiders I think Kelly can end up performing on the level of those who signed for similar deals, he just hasnt done it yet and thats what irks some people about the size of his deal... He's young, mean, nasty, and explosive with a quick first step and the strength to go with it... People wanted Haynesworth, but I wasnt willing to shell out that kind of dough for a player who hasnt played up to the level he did in 07 prior to that... especially with 07 being a contract year for him... when you said the name Albert Haynesworth in 06, all you thought of was him stepping on the head of a Cowboy... At least with Kelly, I know what his deal was... he's one of our own and he had the unfortunate distinction of a Hall of Fame player playing ahead of him at his natural position... I think Kelly will turn a lot of heads this season (barring injury) and eventually find himself in the pro bowl...
    Nice breakdown... and I hope you are correct in your assessments, because if these acquisitions and signings don't produce the intended results, Messrs: Kiffin, Ryan and a host of others will be collecting unemployment checks.
    "You can't Appoint, Hire, or Declare Leadership" ~ Sonny Barger

    "Al Davis thought all owners were dilettantes with a new toy. He said to me many times through the years that owners are often the problem with their franchises, that too many of them think they can run things when they cannot, and the teams that succeed are the ones where the owner hires the best people he can and turns the game over to them."

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    I think if things go wrong this year Kiff and ryan will still be here. They need one more draft. They need to go out and get a wr and some online guys and really build this team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by POKE View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with any of these break downs. But I have 2 points that I would like to disagree with.

    Kwame Harris

    Tom Cable is a good coach. Coaching can only do so much. Not to mention it been rumored to join Jim Mora Jr's 2009 Seattle Coaching Staff. And since I know you like links for proof (so do I) here is the link/

    Tampering _ yawn - Inside The Oakland Raiders - A look inside the world of the highly classified Oakland Raiders from the writers of ANG Newspapers

    It is a workshop for coaches as well. Being an assistant coach in the NFL means always looking out for your next gig. Given their tenuous existence, it’s the common sense move. John Czarnecki of Foxsports.com, besides advancing the popular theory that James Lofton could soon be the head coach of the Raiders, also noted, “It’s also no secret that current Oakland assistants Greg Knapp and Tom Rathman will be on Jim Mora’s 2009 Seattle coaching staff.”

    Czarnecki neglected to mention the third man in that rumor _ offensive line coach Tom Cable.


    Not trying to sway ya mind or nothing. Just putting out what I read. Will this come to fruitation? We shall see.

    Now back to Kwame Harris. I just don't see him as a overall upgrade from Barry Sims. Barry Sims was a old stiff and Kwame Harris is a young stiff. I guess you can say its possible to teach a younger dog better tricks. Kwame Harris runs block better than Sims, Pass blocks worst than Sims, and they both make about the same amount in dumb penelties (holding, false starts, etc) As state Kwame Harris is terrible in pass protecting. He already damn near got (one time franchise QB) Alex Smith killed in SF. Now we have him protecting our franchise QB in Oakland. He can run block decent. Thats great. We are a running team, I get that. But I also get that in football you have to throw the ball the as well. And with Cornell Green at Right Tackle doesn't leave much room for comfort on play actions or roll outs. I just don't see how if you are trying to upgrade a part of a team which is critical especially with a basically rookie QB at the helm why not upgrading the offensive line with as much quality lineman as possible would not be the fore front of issues to address. But hey maybe there were no quality Left Tackles. I don't remember. But I don't think Kwame Harris is even close to being a answer. Or a stop gap. I just hope he doesn't get JaMarcus hurt out there.


    And now this.

    At least with Kelly, I know what his deal was... he's one of our own...

    HAHAHA. For real?? Well if he is one of our own, as you put it, then why did he get a blank check and Nnamdi, who has been the best and most consistent Raider on the roster the last 3 years save Shane Lechler get that good ole one year high raise per diem? Err franchise tag? If anything Nnamdi is well deservent of a big contract over Tommy Kelly. Tommy Kelly has done nothing, nothing to in his career to justify the contract he got from the Raiders. Thats not hate, thats real life facts talking.

    Nnamdi should have been taken care of first. Even before Justin Fargas re-signed. Because Nnamdi is one of our own and not only has he along with Shane Lechler been the most consistent bright spot in the times of darkness, he has handle and represented the Raiders Organization with class. And for that he got a franchise tag instead of a long term contract.

    But Tommy Kelly is one of our own...
    Kwame Harris: Like you said, who else was out there that we could have got to play left tackle in our system?? Trust me when I say this, I'm not some Kwame Harris fanatic, but I do realize that he's still young enough to reach his potential and has upside in this system... Is he the long term answer? I hope so, because that means he's done a good job at what we're paying him to do... now comparing him to Barry Simms is a serious reach, Barry Simms is an average run blocker and a below average pass protector who is not only old but slow afoot as well... Simms was/is not suited for a zone blocking scheme... Kwame started his career over in Frisco under a system that was not suited to his skill-set, they for some damn reason, expected him to be a mauler type of power tackle... thats not him and never will be... Harris is fluid in his motion and is better suited playing in space than Simms, he just needs to adjust to this new style of line play and build his confidence up... I trust that Cable can get the job done... CORRECTION... I HOPE that Cable can get the job done... but its going to take more than four preseason games... Do you remember the baggage that surrounded Lincoln Kennedy when he left Atlanta and joined us?? He was labeled a "bust", then came to a system that fit his skill-set and became a pro bowler...


    Kelly: Now you're not going to get me to compare Nnamdi and Tommy Kelly... of course, Nnamdi should have been paid, but what does that have to do with Kelly? Was Kelly supposed to say "No Al, dont offer me that much money its not fair to Nnamdi..."?? Hell no... and furthermore, the money Kelly signed for didnt eat up what was available to Nnamdi... none of us know what transpired in the negotiations between Nnamdi and the Raiders... for all we know, maybe Nnamdi wanted to be the highest paid defensive player in the league or maybe he wasnt sure he wanted to sign up for the long term until he was sure we were going to turn things around?? Point is, again, Tommy Kelly's contract and whether he deserved it or not had NOTHING to do with Nnamdi Asomugha... they're mutually exclusive... In regards to Tommy deserving it, no he hadnt done anything from a statistical standpoint that justified that large of a salary per se, BUT a lot of that had to do with potential... and if I see it in Kelly than I damn sure know they do... With Kelly you know what you're getting, all them one year wonders that Cleveland signed from GB or even Albert Haynesworth in my opinion is more of a risk than Kelly... I'll stand by my opinion (and admit I was wrong if proved to be so) that barring injury Thomas Kelly will end up being one of the better defensive tackles in the league... book it.

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    One more thing in regards to Tom Cable... I'll admit, I think losing him will be damn catastrophic, but if Al wants him to stay then I'm sure he can get it done... Lets just say Kiffin leaves, does Al promote Lofton to HC and Cable to OC?? Will more money and a promotion keep him here?

    Or if Kiffin and the team is successful this year and Kiffin stays but loses Cable, wouldnt you think Kiffin will be astute enough to find another line coach who can run the same system? I mean damn, he was wise enough to hire Cable...

    Bottom line, the link you posted was someone's opinion, a knowledge based one, but an opinion none the less... we wont know how any of this plays out until after all sixteen games are played...

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